Hello all.

I recently bought and read through the greater part of "The Achilus Assault", though I still have some pages to go through.

The things I am satisfied with at this stage is (SPOILERS ahead!) :

Great background information with lots of colorful personas and allies/adversaries to read about. Especially the Acheros Salient. The Stigmartus really smell a lot like Dan Abnett's Blood Pact to me, which is a good thing (but should've been mentioned earlier).

History of what have happened to the Crusade and its allies (Deathwatch apparently now a more "ordinary" participant), and also how the crusade fares - or doesn't - these days, in greater detail.

The things I am not so satisfied with...:

Lots and lots of obvious info, things that's been described earlier and in great detail, is now rehashed again and again. An example: "The size and scale of the Jericho Reach means that the Crusade faces many of the Imperium's key foes as well as countless minor rogue worlds and xenos races. In the Orpheus Salient, the Crusade clashes with the Tyranids of the Hive Fleet Dagon, the great devourer gnawing away worlds only recently conquered."
-You don't say??! And this goes on for many many pages. How many times do we need to hear these things? AND they probably will reappear in "The Jericho Reach" supplement as well, I presume. Sorry but a waste of space.

... and an example of a thing that should have been in the book:

In the part about Acheros Salient and the Hadex Anomaly, why o why haven't the writers put a table in there about the things that can happen ¨when travelling in the vicinity of this great hazard? Why do we, the readers always need to produce that kind of material ourselves?

Harsh words? Am I being unfair, or do these things and more need to be adressed (as before)?

Not harsh, FFG products are almost always mostly good, or even great, with some big errors whose absence could have made the product significantly better.

I'm a fan of the Achilus Assault, but in a way it reads like a later novel in a series. The author feels the need to reacquaint the reader with the setting and characters, just in case it's a new reader that hasn't read the previous works. Which is pretty silly, considering that the Achilus Assault is not a sequel book, but a supplementary one that purposely provides more material around the core knowledge of the Deathwatch book.

Now, the book did a lot of things right. It has more adventure hooks than you can shake a stick at. It fleshed out a number of important personalities in the Crusade. It demonstrated in almost every single section how the Deathwatch have and can work into the events surrounding that area.

...

Hmm... my well has run dry at the moment. Maybe I'll come up with the rest later.

I don't know that you're being unfair- I've seen harsher words spoken by fans. I do think your (and my) opinions show how diverse a crowd FFG is trying to please.

As for wasting space- I only find these passages take up a paragraph or two, or maybe half a page. I don't really mind it because 90+% of the book is fluff text, and if they had 'please refer to Deathwatch Core Rulebook page 347' all over the place I'd be quite annoyed. In addition, when reading through a section it helps to have the table set in order to create clarity and continuity. All in all I don't mind the added, sometimes repeated, fluff.

As for the Hadex Anomaly, I think you've hit on one of those bits that's eternally going to divide communities. You want the table, others will say 'why do you need a table?' Out of curiosity, how do you feel about the vaugeness of the 'dark patterns'? Some of the fan base likes things to be left open. I personally don't need a table, I figure I've seen enough horror/sci-fi movies in my time to be able to make up something that feels chaosy should my players go near the thing. I wouldn't cry if one existed either.

In addition, I figure more about things like that will be covered in the next supplement (please don't be Achilus Assault pt II), as Achilus Assault is the crusade from the perspective of the crusaders with some DW sprinked in, but the Jericho Reach is supposed to be the Reach from the DW perspective with some crusade sprinkled in.

Like igot, I'm a fan of the book- all the adventure hooks, a sprinkling of new adversaries that mesh well with MotX, introducing some of the high ranking folks a Kill Team might get the 'pleasure' of working with, showing just how the Crusade is on that brink and how easily a GM could make things go well or sour for the Empire. I just don't like the bobblehead illustrations near the back

igotsmeakabob!! said:

Yes I agree, the book did a lot of things right - but - I'd really like to see a total and brought together book of the two: The Achilus Assault and upcoming The Jericho Reach. Is it only economy in this, when splitting this into two books? I mean this whole 'sector' is one big war arena, so there's really very few planets in the Jericho Reach that isn't, one way or the other, involved in the crusade or warring with another kind of foe. So the best thing IMO would be a bigger badder monster of a book. A "bible" so to speak of all the areas in this 'reach'. I feel there's already too many books and places for looking up material for scenario-making on your own. We will very soon want some kind of 'Total-Uber-List-of-All-Material-We-Need-For-the-Job'. And please FFG, make it yourselves!

Also, exactly, it's not a sequel book, none of them should be. Why produce a triad scenario book "The Emperor Protects" and split other stuff? Has chaos forces taken over the main office of FFG??

Charmander said:

OK, waste of space wasn't the right words, but when having that sort of text as an intro into the book, one easily sinks into thoughts of "No-not-again - more-rehashing of older well-known-stuff!". Atleast I do. That makes the tone for the book and it can really make one tired in advance.

I see your point about the table question. And yes I agree, a lot can be done from my own imagination and/or other already produced material. But I think, when describing this area of space, there'd be a lot of the work already done for these 'spooky situations' if there'd be tables showing possible inklings from situations surrounding Hadex Anomaly. Tables can be very spot-defining. I don't mean you should have tables that randomly shapes the whole scenario or greater parts of it. But a tailored table for mystical encounters and/or effects just around where the "Limitless Grasp" vessel ran into greater trouble, would be very helpful. Then that/those table/tables would express just how the authors of the Hadex Anomaly passages in the book, thinks. Also list/lists of rumours going around about the Anomaly would be helpful, as one can use these to build a lot of atmosphere on. Even Space Marines can be superstitious, more so these days.

To be totally frank, I really BADLY need some good advice or arrows pointing in the direction of help towards building up a freaky Warp-travel paranoia and real situations on that theme. I already have looked at the Rogue Trader table "Warp Travel Encounters" on pp 186, and read the chapter it's included in, but I would like to have more! If it's possible, real GM-experience of how to make the "Warp-feel" come across in-game when leading a DW scenario.

I second that, please do not make a Achilus Assault pt II, FFG!

And one last question; but is it only me, or did the Deathwatch all of a sudden get more "crusade-involvement-friendly" since the first DW books words on this matter?

The book is good but doesn't deliver enough detail. FFG authors should get their hands on some old-school MERP modules to see where their books are lacking a bit. MERP modules deliver the big picture and select detail (maps, NPCs (both personalities of note and small fries), items, etc) which means that you can use any of that stuff or have enough white space left to put your own stuff into the big picture.

Alex

ak-73 said:

Or, why not look at how Chaosium have made excellent stuff for 30 years and more! Call of Cthulhu scenarios and adventures is top of the line. I bet the staff for FFG's RPGs are much bigger than Chaosium's any day. Am I wrong?

Charmander said:

I just don't like the bobblehead illustrations near the back

Hey! Those are actual newly commissioned works that are actual pictures of something described in the book instead of random Space Marines or what have you.

This is to be encouraged.

Even the pictures of the stargate look like whoever drew them actually read the description first.

AluminiumWolf said:

Charmander said:

I just don't like the bobblehead illustrations near the back

Hey! Those are actual newly commissioned works that are actual pictures of something described in the book instead of random Space Marines or what have you.

This is to be encouraged.

Even the pictures of the stargate look like whoever drew them actually read the description first.

Yeah, why does this have to be such a rare attribute for book artists?

igotsmeakabob!! said:

I think this is simply fallout of the process of how things are published. An artist may be asked to simply paint a picture of an official looking military person, and be given reference material but not be given the actual description. While my knowledge of books is not first hand, I have seen and worked with other published materials where the art is finished and the product changes late in the game; the artist either doesn't have time to fix the art, the contracts and budget don't allow for it, or no one notices because everyone is busy trying to get a product out the door by the deadline some marketing person made.

In regards to these specific pictures, my only issue is it looks like the head and the body were done by different people. It's a style thing, I know, I just like some of the other illustrations better

The MERP campaign modules are a legacy of olden times: we will not see their kind again.

This is a brave new world where less is more, rip-offs are deals, peace means war, and the foxes rule the roost. This is the world of a boot smashing a human face forever. Personally, I'm glad to be a part of it...long live the Emprah!!

Both MERP as well as CoC are shining examples for what the right ingredients for sourcebooks are. If you are a RPG author, you better know your craft well.

Alex

ak-73 said:

Hear, hear!

I just wish these books had more pictures. (It sounds like a very Gaston thing to say I know) but I'll give you an example. In First Founding the adventure Traitors Dawn only has one picture and that is of the top of one of the hives but there's no maps or pictures. It would have been nice to see the planet's landscape so I could show them what it looked like, describing it worked but we had some problems when people forgot it was mostly water. Don't think players would forget if presented with a picture of the world.

I understand it comes down to costs but if your having a book showcasing places it be nice to see those places instead of the front cover to a 40K novel plastered on that usually has no relevance to the subject being spoken about.

Didja read these last 3 posts, FFG gods?? Cause that's what's gonna make or break ya, brothers! People still talk about these games and their friggin' exceptional supplemental books twenty five years later !!

Zappiel said:

- Exactly! It's like Chaosium and the old Iron Crown Enterprises could hold some much-needed courses in "How to build a good looking adventure 101" for the guys and girls of FFG!

Honestly I haven't bought the Achilus Assault but had the opportunity to browse through a copy that a friend had bought. I found that its extensive enough for GMs to build upon. I haven't gotten any MERP books to compare. In my two cents of opinion, the authors probably had a plan of how to flesh out the Jericho Sector which was the DW setting.

It may not be as extensive as MERP but the authors do have a certain page limit/ information quota that they work around. Its enough to set my DM thinking and planning. And he's been in WH40k for bout a decade or so and knows quite abit of fluff/fanon/canon material.

Overall I think its pretty decent for a source material. Its a good balance for to cater to veteran gamers and RP gamers who want to know more bout DW. I can say that I'm pretty pleased.

Deepstriker said:

Thanks for your comment Deepstriker! Yes, it's a good thing that people are pleased with the supplements and stuff. And to be 100% serious here, could I do it better or better looking? Probably not. But please FFG - page limit or not - give us some more scenario maps atleast! I can make do without most illustrations (no matter how cool they're looking) and also the special page coloring and watermarks and stuff, just give us some more scenario maps. It would really help a LOT when describing and controlling monsters/adversaries/happenings on the game table. It also gives a pretty good outline just how you're thinking the scenario stuff is supposed to work... I am on my knees here.

And Dracopticon is a holder of the Deathwatch Special Edition! He's given you guys a helluva lotta cash! He's helped you folks out over and above the average consumer of your products - perhaps y'all should listen to his words and give the poor guy a hand!! I know everything these days is all flash and sizzle and zero substance, but enuf's enuf, no? People are starting to demand quality again, and 'cool-looking' just can't cut it anymore.

IMPORTANT NOTE: This is the internet, and as a result it's really easy to take things out of context and get riled up for no good reason, I know I get that way all the time. The following is absolutely done in a friendly manner and is not attempting to incite the Nerdrage that gives all the strength of ten men.

Everybody running games falls into the same trap. Everyone. We all run the game that we would want to play in . Even if we try to do somethign else, that's what ends up coming out anyway. Whenever I run a game, it usually devolves into conspiracy theory, body horror and set pieces that would make Michael Bay blush. That's what I do. Your game might be different, focussing more on huge kill counts. Or putting a massive emphassis on diplomacy and talking your way out of problems. Or a female space marine finding true love in a crazy, madcap universe. Whatever it is, that's your game and it's what you (and hopefully your players) like as well. You'd probably hate my game. In fact, for some of you, I'd make sure of it *glares without any real malice or direction*

If we extrapolate that forwards though, your realise that the same thing applied for game developers. They are making the sourcebooks that work well for their games, their playtesters, their mindset of the way things work. Turrning around and just saying, "I need it to be better" is probably doing nothing more than confusing the poor developers that lurk here (or contribute 61% or all posts, hey there N0_1).

Put pen to paper, finger to keyboard. Go the the GM section, or the house rules section, or wherever you feel like posting. Put up your ideas. Share your fixes. If you can't draw a map, tell us how you'd describe things. If you find a movie or a book or an 80's cartoon that has a perfect representation of a genestealer in motion, the raw strength of an astartes or even just somehting cool for the 40k universe, spread the word.

If you actively work towards sharing the things you've seen or done, there's a solid chance that someone else will be lookign for that exact inspiration at the time. If you're really, really lucky, one of the developers dropping by might randomly click on some of your work and think, "Yeah... that's exactly what we're looking for" and hit you up for writing a section of an up nad coming book (,he said, indicating his true ignorance on exactly how these things work).

And hell, even if no one else appreciates your efforts, I'll read your posts. And as I'd do so, sitting here with a thoughtful expression on my face, I'll probably think to myself, "Wow - I'd hate that game!".

I'm quite satisfied with the supplements we've been getting so far, Achilus Assault included,and am not bothered by the announcement of Jericho Reach. One is about the war effort itself, the other is about their location. Two different, albeit intertwined, subjects.

Though you're right about maps though, some would be nice, especially in regards to theatres of war (laying out the battle lines, and fortifications, other notable locations and possible targets, etc.).

dracopticon said:

To paraphrase Stan Lee, " Every comic is someone's first comic. "

Which is to simply say, not everyone buys the same books, or the core book first. I myself have been introduced to more than a couple RPG's by finding a supplement interesting, and only THEN going to grab the core book. Rehashing some information is not only expected, but required, just so long as it's not great multi-page reprints of the (exact) same info. Waxing poetic about the Great Devourer bearing down on the sector doesn't fall in to that, either.

Nice maps, character drawings - these are expensive but important to make me buy a pre-gen mission. As is an elaborate plot which I couldn't make up without substantial work.

It needn't be "Save the Reach" level missions. You can publish small-scale plots very well. They criteria is that it's a plot that is elaborate and would be time-consuming to make up on your own.

Alex

Zappiel said:

HAHA! Thanks man, I needed that support!

I remember reading that the guy who wrote Masks of Nyarlathotep didn't do any more roleplaying stuff because he got paid more for a first draft of the script for a half hour cartoon show than he did for all of MoN.

Call of Cthulhu supplements are labours of love, not commercial endeavours.

AluminiumWolf said:

I agree, but people are STILL buying the great supplement, and there's even a fourth hardbound edition out now (which I bought)! Look here:
http://catalog.chaosium.com/product_info.php?cPath=41&products_id=5151

So I wouldn't say they're ONLY labours of love. They're often both, which FFG should take note of. FFG have taken steps backward in quality. And by "quality" I mean the overall playability of the supplement.