Hi everyone.

Disclamimer: I only have the basic game - no expansions.

1. After having played five games so far I cannot help feeling that characters strong on sanity+will seems to be better picks than stamina/fight-heavy characters simply because you cannot get around the horrorcheck/sanity-loss pre-fight. Characters strong on stamina has an equal low value on sanity and are not often strong on will. They therefore often keep ending up at the asylum, whereas characters strong on sanity+will are more like to survive the initial horrorcheck and have a larger access to gear that boosts his/her combat-valvue.
   
   What it boils down to is that my friends and I feel that a low stamina valvue is easier to compensate for gearwise, whereas a low sanity (and often low will) valvue is much harder to compensate for (in the basic game only via a few skills, holy cross and a companion).
2. What is your opnion on this subject? Does is even out with some of the expansions?
3. Also - does the game get any harder with the expansions? So far we have not lost a game or even had an ancient one spawn - I heard that you should expect to loose more than you win?
4. last: what is you opinion on Mist of Releh spell? 0 sanity cost for an evade spell? We had big discussions about this spell because it completely shifts the balance between sneak vs lore strong characters. This spell enables strong lore characters to max out speed and lore, giving them much better mobility and gate-closing-potential than sneak-strong characters who have to balance out their sneak-valvue with speed, giving less mobility and no other real advantages (excepts a few encounters).

Looking forward to hear from some of you more experienced gamers

... And a happy new year to all!

And a follow-up question we have not been able to find and answer to. How do you exactly loose both all your stamina and sanity? Except for taking stupid fights with creatures that have overwhelming/nightmarish when you are low on stamina/sanity and some ancient ones - I cannot figure out how you would die? Do you automatically take stamina damage after loosing all sanity?

Cheers!

Losing all your sanity and all your stamina SIMULTANEOUSLY is the only way in whcih losing sanity/stamina can devour you. It's nearly impossible to get devoured that way in combat, because all the different types of combat damage are in strict sequence, so you will go insane or unconscious first, and this ends the combat and sends you straight to the asylum/hospital. However there are plenty of random encounters whcih say something like "Lose 1 Sanity and 1 Stamina", which (if you are on 1/1) devours you instantly. A few Unique items have simultaneous San/Stam costs which also make it possible to devour yourself.

Re: which is better:

I have all the expansions, but I think the same thing is traue across all of them: Sanity is massively more useful than Stamina. The best stats you can have is 7 Sanity / 3 Stamina.

A number of reasons for this:

1) Spells cost Sanity, so it's useful to have a lot to spend on spells should the need arise, whereas there's no equivalent use for Stamina.

2) Sanity loss from encounters is more common than Stamina loss.

3) The structure of AH combat means that there is simply 'more at stake' on combat checks: all other things being equal, a combat check is an equal or bigger risk which (if it fails) has basically the same penalty as going insane, but which (if it passes) has a much bigger reward. So all other things being equal , it is in your interests to maximize 'Fight' and use Sanity to pay the cost of failed Horror checks, rather than maximizing will and using Stamina to pay for failed combat checks. Of course, this determination doesn't apply if one or the other of Horror and Combat checks is (on average) more difficult; but that's a very complex question because it depends on the composition of the monster cup and the availability of items which boost one stat or the other.

Rasmusle said:

There are some nasty other world encounters that cause you to lose both sanity and stamina. I got devoured that way once.

I agree with all of thecorinthian's points (though the one upside to sanity is that it normally only gets hit once in combat); even so, 7/3 is way too severe of a split. Especially if your Lore is low enough that you're not planning to be one of the team's casters, having a solid buffer for both sanity and stamina is, in my opinion, usually more valuable than playing the long-run damage odds. For example, I'm reluctant to send a 3 stam investigator into a stamina-threatening Other World, just because the chance of Unavoidable Unconsciousness By Encounter is so much higher than even that of someone with 4.

The expansions definitely make the game harder. Dunwich is generally held to provide a reasonable difficulty increment; like most of the other expansions, it features gate bursts (without which a sealing victory in the base set is pretty trivial once you know what you're doing), but it also adds more big monsters to the cup and starts to give you some interestingly difficult AOs. The later expansions pose even more of a challenge.

Thanks for the quick replies. I will definately consider getting the dunwich expansion.

Thx Thecorinthian for the explanation - even though I think that it is wierd that the monsters just leave you be after scarring the crap out of you

My general feel is also that sanity is way more usable, because a low pool simply means that you will never get to the actual fighting phase vs a scarry monster (ei. -2/3 on your will-save will usually cause most investigators to fail the check and loose sanity). Do you get access to more skills and items that increase will/horror checks?

Also: would still love to hear from people about the spell.. any got a sanity-cost house rule on it?

@ Jack 21222,

If memory serves, you're not devoured if your current Sanity and Stamina drop to zero...I believe it's if either/both your Maximum Sanity or Stamina ever drops to zero (see Cthulhu)

The Professor

I find 6 Sanity 4 Stamina to be the best mix. 7/3 leaves you a little too vulnerable on the Stamina side. One "take 2 damage" encounter will leave you perilously close to the edge.

Stamina is a lot easier to mitigate than Sanity for the simple reason that there are more weapons (improving your odds at passing combat checks) than there are boosters for Horror checks. In addition, many spells require Sanity to use, whereas there are very few items which require Stamina to use.

As with any rule there are exceptions: there is a farmhand character in one expansion who doesn't need to make Horror checks if he passes his Combat check first (though I think he is 5/6 anyway). Likewise Carolyn Fern naturally regenerates Sanity so would benefit to any effect which improves her Maximum Stamina (e.g. William Brinton) is very useful.

The Professor said:

Jack's got it. If your current sanity and stamina drop to 0 simultaneously , you're devoured.

Oh, that's the qualifier ~ it has to be Sanity AND Stamina, otherwise it's a question of Maximum. Thanks, Tibs!

The best combo actually is 7 sanity and 4 stamina. Lily Chen your arse.

Well Chen's pretty non-standard. Even still, the innate ability to heal both stats is nothing to scoff at.

There's really no debate about it - Sanity is better. It doesn't necessarily mean high stamina investigators suck, but they generally have fewer options open to them and have to be more tactically cautious.

For a long time I searched for a way to houserule spellcasting or Sanity to alleviate this problem, but I gave up. What I found better is a houseruled use for Stamina that helps it work as a tactical resource like Sanity does. During the movement phase, any investigator can spend up to 2 stamina to gain either one movement point or +2 to a combat check per stamina spent. I find it to be thematically appropriate and a great balancer for difficult to use high stamina investigators. It's also a nice boon for Vincent in particular, who is otherwise extremely lacking.

Thx guys. So it is at we expected Any other stamina house rules tried and tested out there?

On topic: any thoughts on question #4?

Well, my take on Mists is that it's a good spell, but not overpowered.

Don't forget that you have to exhaust it after casting, so that means that if you need to pass more than one monster on your turn, or even worse, you get surprised by more than one monster (think surge), your low sneak is going to get you in trouble.

High San, low Stam is my usual preference - however it does depend a lot on your tactics. Many of the individual AOs and even Mythos cards can cause you to need a different approach.

Possible "house rules" for making spells more useful, or give players more reason to go to it:

- Remove all combat spells from the spell deck (so that it consists entirely of unusual effects which you can't get any other way)
- Cut the cost of buying spells at the Magick Shop down to $4 or even £3
- Let people pick from three spell cards rather than just two

- You only pay the Sanity cost if you fail to cast the spell

- Sanity costs can be paid by moving the Lore skill slider one space to the left, thus forcing you to use Focus or accept lower Lore next turn

- All combat spells use Lore instead of Fight (so you get the same number of dice but also an extra advantag eof being to max out Will)

However none of these approaches will work for everything, since each method will probably cause one or two spells to be outrageously powerful, and some others to become worthless or at least less special. There are a lot of good spells which have already have appropriate sanity costs, and which make the game more fun, but the problem is that there's so much specialized junk in the spell deck that it's usually not worth actually trying to get spells when you could get Uniques instead.

thecorinthian said:

I used to be a strong advocate for modified spell mechanics, but, particularly since the updated CotDP spells, I find most of them to be pretty decent. There are only a few that are lacking. I do use a few houserules specifically for spells to supplement my stamina houserule:

1. Spectral Razor and Fist of Yog-Sothoth (two of the worst spells IMO) are changed to be cast outside of combat (upkeep or movement) and work for the entire round. This helps distinguish them from the standard 3 (Dread Curse, Shrivel, Wither), gives them a badly needed mechanical boost, and makes more thematic sense as the spells are essentially summoning a magical weapon, as opposed to directly attacking the baddie.

2. You can draw 3 cards the magic shop instead of just 2.

3. Any spell that is marked as "cast and discard" (very powerful spells) is instead "cast and exhaust". However, these spells can only be refreshed by visiting the magic shop and paying $3 for reagents. This serves the dual purpose of making those spells more worthwhile and making the magic shoppe more relevant.

Einlanzer80 said:

So let my just get one thing straight - spells like wither and shrivilling only work for one combat? ei. fighting two monsters you only get bonuses for 1 monster? or you get for both, but not for say an encounter or the likes? The rules are very vauge on this subject I think.

Rasmusle said:

They can work for multiple rounds, but only for a single fight (i.e. one monster). Mind you, this is specifically for Wither/Shriveling/Dread Curse and Fist of Yog/Spectral Razor. There are some combat-related spells that have different mechanics. Call the Azure Flame basically summons a magical shotgun, which can be used in multiple fights.

1. I've always found that the moment one starts making blanket statements about aspects of the game, the game will HEAR you and find a way to throw it in your face. That's really not a dig...it's more of a warning. It only takes one bad Stamina Loss card or monster to blow all that high-falutin' Sanity back to the Hospital. That said, Sanity is indeed attacked much more than Stamina, an Investigator who avoids combat can avoid the lion's share of bad Stamina losses, and it's very annoying when Michael (and Mark, and even Skids or Tony) can't even get to the actual movie because he lost his mind during the preview trailers.

Quick story: Sister Mary started with a Summon Monster Spell (draw a monster from the Cup and place it in your current boardspace). The intent was to forfeit the Horror Check and absorb the damage with her high Sanity, then use her lowish Fight with traded weapons to kill it for the trophy. Then she drew a Shan, a Kingsport Expansion monster that DEVOURS YOU if you fail a Horror Check. Turn 1 death for Sister Mary.

The game KNOWS.

2. I prefer my Investigators closer to 5/5 than 7/3, but you'll get used to compensating for any Investigator shortcoming. (Like using weapons to compensate for a low Fight or Stamina; you got that down pretty quick.)

3. Expansions most certainly make the game harder, not only by introducing more unstable Locations and new dangerous board mechanics to mess up your gate-sealing strategies, but by offering more deadly Ancient Ones and Mythos cards to melt your eyeballs out of your head. (And Shans!) My win ratio is probably around 40%, but I tend to count Final Battle victories as a draw when I play solo, so my "official" win ratio may be a bit higher. (Play to win, of course, but play to PLAY is more important.)

4. When I first started playing many moons ago, I virtually ignored Sneak, and thus, ignored the Mists of Releh as well. (I liked combat! Even hopeless combat!) But then I eventually learned that discretion is indeed the better part of valor, and sometimes you just can't afford to stop and kill something that really deserves it because you're pushing your Gate Limit and the Doom Clock is almost run out. Which makes Mists of Releh one of the best Spells in the game, especially for high Lore gatebusters that tend to need their crappy Speed maxed out (good observation, Ras!). For me, it took learning how to play Wendy (from Kingsport) and Mark (from Dunwich) "properly" to fully appreciate the advantage of Sneak (and then Innsmouth to desperately rely on it) and come to love the Sanity-cost-free Mists.

Welcome to the Carnival, Rasmusle!