A friend and I were playing Talisman with the Reaper Expansion and during the game the Reaper landed on his square. My friend rolled a 1, which meant he was dead. He wanted to play his fate token and on balance we were agreed that it was fair that he could do this. (not sure if this should be allowed) However he re-rolled and this time he was to lose a follower which was to be chosen at random. He had 5 followers and so we laid out these followers in a row and agreed that I would roll a die and unless it was a 6 (which would be roll again) this would determine which follower was to be taken by the Reaper. I rolled a 4 which, as it turned out, was his warhorse and his most powerful follower. Losing him would almost certainly have cost him the game. He then insisted that he be allowed to play another fate token to re-roll this selection. I was not willing to allow this for 2 reasons: 1) There was no instruction to roll the die and we only agreed to do this as a means of selecting one of the followers at random - we could equally have shuffled the cards and selected one at random. To my mind you can only use fate when you have been directly instructed to roll the die and this did not happen. 2) The fate token can only be used to re-roll your own roll. In this case I rolled to select the Reapers choice. My friend argued that it should have been up to him to roll for the Reaper - I'm not sure if he had any logic for this one.

In the end we met an impasse on this and the game had to be abandoned. What are the views of the forum?

Your Point #1 is correct. Shuffling the cards would have eliminated this die roll. Plus, I'm pretty sure you can only spend Fate to reroll a die roll once per turn.

You may spend a fate for any die roll you make for your own character and it is not restricted to once per turn!

If a character rolls a 1 for the Reaper, he may spend a fate to reroll the die.

When determining which Follower the Reaper takes from a character, a fate cannot be paid to reroll the die as it is not an official die roll in the game. Shuffling the Followers facedown and selecting one at random is the best course of action to determine which Follower is taken by the Reaper!

Ell.

You may spend a fate for any die roll you make for your own character and it is not restricted to once per turn!

If a character rolls a 1 for the Reaper, he may spend a fate to reroll the die.

When determining which Follower the Reaper takes from a character, a fate cannot be paid to reroll the die as it is not an official die roll in the game. Shuffling the Followers facedown and selecting one at random is the best course of action to determine which Follower is taken by the Reaper!

Ell.

I was under the impression you can only use fate tokens to re-roll a dice roll made due to an instruction on a board space or card (any type of card, such as adventure, spell, character or alternate ending) or a rule such as movement dice roll or crown of command spell.

It's also wrong that you had to abandon the game over this too. The rules state that disputes over cards and rules should be handled with a dice roll ( 1-3 my version 4-6 your version) you should never have to stop a game of talisman tut tut

Thing I would generally agree with you, and when there was ever a genuine disagreement about an interpretation we would always play that rule and roll a die to decide the final ruling. However the problem with this is that it provides an opportunity for someone to dishonestly take a position on something purely for the sake of disagreement. Then he will become completely intransigent on that position knowing that at worst he will have a 50% chance of the die-roll going his way and his interpretation being adopted - no matter how ridiculous that interpretation is.

In this case, when the game designer indicated that he should not be allowed to use a fate token to re-roll (my roll) to determine which follower was taken, he finally acknowledged that he never really believed he could anyway. The game had been abandoned and an evening was wasted arguing. At the time both he and I knew his interpretation was just a ploy, which he finally acknowledged when game designer gave his verdict. But by the game being abandoned he at least avoided the humiliation of being beaten yet again. (These arguments usually happen when he is on the verge of losing - whic is most games).

In the end Talisman like most board games should flow pretty smoothly if people play with an honest spirit. With this fellow it has even decended to him snapping up the die quickly if he rolls a number he doesn't want and claiming he made a faulty throw. You have to let him roll again or you know you would be in for a one hour argument and the game ultimately being abandoned unless he gets his own way. We have even spent time arguing over an interpretation, conceded to his interpretation to keep the game moving (even when he is obviously wrong) and then within moments he will argue the exact opposite interpretation because this time the opposite interpretation is to his benefit.

Furthermore Thing, if I had allowed him to roll a die to determine which interpretation we would follow - 1-3 my interpretation and 4-6 his interpretation. I guarantee that if he had rolled say a "2" he would have demanded that he be allowed to keep playing fate tokens until he got a 4, 5 or 6. If I refused he would have again demanded another 50/50 roll for that ruling also.....it would just have gone on and on...

Thing I would generally agree with you, and when there was ever a genuine disagreement about an interpretation we would always play that rule and roll a die to decide the final ruling. However the problem with this is that it provides an opportunity for someone to dishonestly take a position on something purely for the sake of disagreement. Then he will become completely intransigent on that position knowing that at worst he will have a 50% chance of the die-roll going his way and his interpretation being adopted - no matter how ridiculous that interpretation is.

In this case, when the game designer indicated that he should not be allowed to use a fate token to re-roll (my roll) to determine which follower was taken, he finally acknowledged that he never really believed he could anyway. The game had been abandoned and an evening was wasted arguing. At the time both he and I knew his interpretation was just a ploy, which he finally acknowledged when game designer gave his verdict. But by the game being abandoned he at least avoided the humiliation of being beaten yet again. (These arguments usually happen when he is on the verge of losing - whic is most games).

In the end Talisman like most board games should flow pretty smoothly if people play with an honest spirit. With this fellow it has even decended to him snapping up the die quickly if he rolls a number he doesn't want and claiming he made a faulty throw. You have to let him roll again or you know you would be in for a one hour argument and the game ultimately being abandoned unless he gets his own way. We have even spent time arguing over an interpretation, conceded to his interpretation to keep the game moving (even when he is obviously wrong) and then within moments he will argue the exact opposite interpretation because this time the opposite interpretation is to his benefit.

Furthermore Thing, if I had allowed him to roll a die to determine which interpretation we would follow - 1-3 my interpretation and 4-6 his interpretation. I guarantee that if he had rolled say a "2" he would have demanded that he be allowed to keep playing fate tokens until he got a 4, 5 or 6. If I refused he would have again demanded another 50/50 roll for that ruling also.....it would just have gone on and on...

I would say don't play with that person again. Life's too short for that. it is supposed to be fun, you know, a game.

BanthaFodder said:

He would be no friend of mine playing like that. What an idiot he is lol

Ell.

Seriously. Tell him he can play with himself.

talismanamsilat said:

Ah he's not an idiot at all....he's actually a very good friend. Unfortunately either he isn't approaching these games with the right spirit or else I just can't handle the constant arguments/twisting of the rules. Not sure if a "friendly game" is possible though - which is a shame.