So, I figure some of the new plots are kind of vague in the way they work with titles, so i figured i ask.
That said, i doubt there is any precedent on the rulings; so the result of this thread will probably just be "its probably like this, but its better if you ask nate/damon".

"I fight to win" lets a player choose 2 titles, in a 3 player game where the titles are not returned to the pool, what happens when there are no more titles left to choose. OR on the round after it is flipped, when there are only 2 titles left in the pool.

"The Grand Melee" do the titles bonus add in when you count strength in their respective challenges?

They're not really vague at all.

oshi said:

When you look at it that way, it's pretty clear that with this plot, you return the Titles to the "pool" at the end of the round so there is at least one Title for each player to choose in the next round.

oshi said:

ktom said:

The thing is, thats not at all what the CoreSet text says. I don't buy the justification at all, but the end result i can agree with.
That said, I Imagine you would say that if the plot is flipped when there are 3 titles left in the pool, the revealer would not get a second title as there are none left to choose from?

I'll Send in an email and see what Damon says...

oshi said:

Keep in mind that the rules say you have to kneel your attackers when you declare them, too. Yet there are card effects that say otherwise. The rules say you only get one of each challenge per challenge phase - but no one asks if "an additional military challenge" means you have to give up a power or intrigue challenge. We take a broader view of the rules when the cards conflict, modifying things only as much as necessary for the card to resolve. Does the game mechanic for Titles break down completely in a 3-player game because of the one card?

But it doesn't break down. The third player in the second round can make do without a title that round.

As normal each player chooses from the remaining titles. If there are no remaining Titles, there's nothing to get.

oshi said:

Maybe it's a matter of opinion, but saying "you don't get a title this round" looks like a much more serious violation of the rules than "everyone return their titles early."

I will agree that its probably a matter of opinion. Going without a title, especially in 3 players isn't so bad; not being forced to support someone, depending on how the plots roll out.

I think I am just iffy on making up rules where there are none. Especially when the text is pretty specific on when titles are supposed to be returned to the pool.

Actually, the rules say "in a 3 player game, return the titles to the pool when there aren't any left" (which would be a pain if there were only 1 or 2 left) rather than the more reasonable (in light of the plot) "return the titles to the pool when there are fewer of them left than players". On a side note, it seems that Myrcella loves this plot ("give me your 2 plots for this one I've already used up anyway") and Kingmoot even more.

Yeah, despite what the rules say, Nate says they go back if there aren't enough for the next round. *shrugs*

Totally different card, but vaguely along the same line of question...

What happens when you den of the wolf the plot phase after titles are chosen? are titles returned and rechosen the second time around? are titles not at all rechosen? do the first 2 players in the second plot phase get an extra title? (or however many may be left over)

I'd argue that if you already had a title for that round, you cannot choose another title for the round. You get to the step for choosing titles in the second plot phase, but would be blocked from taking another by the one you already have.

But I doubt anyone has looked at that before and nothing anyone says will be official. You may want send it in for an official answer.

ktom said:

In the core rules:

"At the end of the round, all titles are returned to
the Small Council Chamber on the game board,
and new titles are selected at the appropriate time
during the following plot phase."

I assume that this implies that the round must end in order for new titles to be selected.

Bomb said:

Kind of off-topic, but if ODG Myrcella is used to take the Crown Regent, and the title has already been used to redirect a challenge that Round, does the new Crown Regent still get to use it to redirect another one?
She's gonna be a huge target in melee games imho, especially if her controller is standing her, returning her to hand with GG, etc. I do not like her, too much potential for trickery.

Yes. The new holder of the Crown Regent title can redirect, even if the last holder already did, too. There's a thread on it somewhere.

I guess this would go without saying, but a new first player would also be chosen the second plot phase right?

Not that this necessarily would effect IF titles would be rechosen, but the order of players certainly effects the way titles would be chosen...

oshi said:

Yes - everything in the plot phase is done as normal except reissuing titles.