I just downloaded the Space Expanders unofficial supplement and was puzzled by a reference on a couple of the cards. Both the Badlands and Tanglewood cards differentiate between being attacked and attacking. For example, on the Badlands card it says, "In combat against Enemies already here, roll a die below your Craft. If you fail, you are attacked instead of attacking." I can't seem to find any difference in either the official rules or in the expansion rules. Is there something I'm missing ?

Thanks

Rophan said:

The difference is who rolls first. If you're attacked (i,e, drawing the enemy from the adventure deck or rolling a 1 in the crags) the enemy has the first roll and you the second. If you land on a face up enemy you attack it and therefore rolls first. This is not very important most of the time but for some characters, for example the assassin, it might make the whole difference as he is able to assasinate if he is the one attacking and not if he is attacked.

The Watcher said:

Not of course true in the revised 4th edition! The Assassin can assassinate any creature, including ones that he has just drawn.

Ell.

The Watcher is correct, though it is less about the roll. When you land on something already exposed / placed on the space, you are on the attack / attacking . When you must draw an encounter card (Adventure, Highlands, etc.) or roll an encounter (i.e. for the Cave card, etc.) and have to face an Enemy or other creature in combat, you are being attacked .

The whole Attacked/Attacking thing is a pretty bad set of terms for what is happening (Offense vs. Defense). This situation by the official rules exists only for Character vs Character. What you see in those two SE cards is an echo of what some groups have done over the 20 years of Talisman's existence. They had extended this consideration to Characters vs. Enemies and other creatures. If this doesn't appeal to you, toss those cards out and use the others.

NOTE: Some groups have then also asked, "What happens when you draw an Enemy and there is another already on the space with the same Order Number? Are they attacking or attacked since they fight together?" The answer is of course, "It's up to you and yours." In most groups applying the attacking vs. attacked rule to encountering Enemies/Characters, attacking always supersedes; for those groups, the newly drawn Enemy means that any Enemy already present that combines with it is therefor on the attack... on Offense... and in that combat for the turn, the Character is being attacked by that collective... on Defense.

While it is true that the Assassination ability in 4ER is allowed in both situations, it is also one of the most house-ruled Special Abilities. It is up to you and yours, Rophan, to decide for yourself... since you are already in a realm outside of the official when you delve into homebrewed add-ons.

Space Expanders is one of the few very collective / collaborative homebrews and was done a while back before most of the commercial expansions were released. Be prepared for some unforeseen in-the-moment complications, though they should be minor. It is probably best to play any new homebrew additions to Talisman as cleanly as possibly by the standard rules at least one time until you see how it works. Then you can add on other homebrew material and make modifications as needed to suit your taste.

Other than that, just enjoy the variations as a change of pace... and decide for yourself as you wish when there's something outside the official rules to consider.

talismanamsilat said:

True indeed. might be the least drawn character in our gaming group. I don't think I ever seen him in a game or even as a reserve character (we always draw two and choose one to start and one to take over if the first one is lost) since one of our earliest tries with the revised 4th edition, which was bought almost upon release and we house-ruled it back to it's original reading before even trying the new one so I had forgotten it has changed. I was just trying to think of something else than "When attacking another character you may choose do to it in psycic combat" (or whatever the cards say) to use as an example and couldn't remember anything else. Is it my memory or is this the only time it really matters? I believe this is what JC is pointing at as well.

Thanks for the correction.

Thanks for the clarifications.

@The Watcher...

From what I remember off hand, most Character's with Psychic Combat ability can only use it on another character when they are "attacking" (Offense) and not when they are "attacked"(Defense) by another character. The Assassination ability is different in that is an issue of advantage in mode of combat rather than a choice of mode. But the wording of Psychic Attack abilities is cited now and then as a standard for going back to the wording for Assassination on the 2E Assassin.

I, for one, used the new Assassin to rather devastating advantage when we first acquired 4E and then the upgrade to 4ER. I remember that character winning at least 1 out of 3 times in games of 4 to 9 players when someone played it. (Yup, he got played a fair amount.) It wasn't long before others (and I agreed) wanted the Assassin sent back to his old ways.

I suppose one could make a case for a rule concering Enemies with both Strength and Craft where the Psychic Combat ability is concerned... but thinking it through it's just too messy vs. the simpler situation of the Assassin.