Hi, I'm making a cleric, taking the confessor alternate rank. I was wondering, do I have the authority to execute citizens, and low ranked guardsmen.PDF just because of my status? I know I could probably get away with it if I flashed my Inquisition badge, but sometimes it'd be nice to just be able to kill someone because they were a heretic, and I a cleric. Maybe just to keep the fact I'm a accolyte a secret.

I probably wouldn't do any straight out killing, unless I had a good reason and/or I could make others believe they deserved it.

I suppose you could judge someone if they're in church juristiction, like breaking rules stated in the Imperial Creed (which have so far not been defined). I still think other law enforcement agencies (Enforcers, Arbites, Inquisition etc.) would take a look at the killing depending on the crime and the criminal.

For the most part i doubt that a cleric would do any killings personally, i like to think he would get the person in question arrested by the church and let them take of it.

Also i believe that each huge faction has its own set of laws so there could be complication, and you wouldn't be able to punish someone for crimes related to technology as an example imho.

I think you are asking the wrong persons. You are GM is to decide if their is any such authorities to priest or clergy in his campaigne.

My personal opinion: while you are not sanctioned to kill, I think you will be the most likely to get away with it. IF you style it as a wytch hutn/mutant hunt/any such things AND you have "proof" for heresy. That is how I as a GM would handle it.

That reminds me, I should probably purchase a pict recorder to record my interrogations for evidence of heresy.

Thanks for the replies.

I would say you could get away with killing a citizen with little proof.

Guardsmen belong to the Departmento Munitorium and that would be very bad form to destroy their property and would bring major repercussions. You could be charged with treason due to hampering the war effort, destruction of property, and possibly acts of war against the Imperium of Man.

PDF, that could be bad politically, depending on the planet.

By the way, "Book of Judgement" has this fluff-text about crimes the Arbites do care about.

One of them was "Unsanctioned Execution". Not to talk about "Unsanctioned Murder" or "Unsanctioned Assassination".

These guys have a penchant for flamers and chainswords. They do as they please mostly and have have heaps of foaming at the mouth frateris to back them up. At high levels they are all buddies with the governorship, the administratum heads, and all the movers and shakers of the major noble, merchant, and military houses. In 40k might makes right, and Justice is the right of the stronger (both literally and influentially), the ministorum is mighty and strong with many powerful sycophants in tow, so it would be a brave arbitrator that went up againstthe ministorum without very good reason.

A cleric needs to keep in mind however, that all those peasants (even those in their own flock) may very well be vassals or intentured workers of factory lords, or nobles. Even in hives most peasants are indentured or serve guilds in some way, so you need to realise that although there may be no repecussion for executing one eretic, making a hibit of it in a given area will eventually bring some sort of heat your way (like a couple of Metallican gunslingers or feral world death cult assassins or somethin like that).

I want to add to what Zakalwe wrote, that in my opinion your standing and importance within the church have a lot to do with what you can and cant do.

A lone unknown Cleric from some random feral could probably not execute someone with barely any proof of heresy, while the bishop of a cardinal world probably could.

I was wondering, do I have the authority to execute citizens, and low ranked guardsmen.PDF just because of my status?

What status?

Luddite said:

Confessor

Gregorius21778 said:

I imagine that Confessors, given their role within the Church, have a lot of authority to pass judgement upon the populace - it is their role to extract confessions from the congregation and condemn sinners and blasphemers, afterall. In essence, they have the responsibility to uphold the religious laws of the Imperium. However, I imagine their authority is limited by the responsibilities of their office, much as Arbitrators are.

I also imagine that their authority over Guardsmen is limited as well - punishing Guardsmen is inherently a matter for their officers and the regiment's Commissars. PDF and the common populace, however, are fair game, as they'd be part of the congregation.

Luddite said:

By the authority of the stronger! Because as a Confessor (some standing in the church) you can bring a hole lot of heat down on anyone who messes with you. After all, the purity of the Emporer's subjects is your responsibility, and allowing a heretic to go unpunished to further infect the rest of the lock just won't do now will it! No arbitrator is going to mess with that if you have some sort of standing with the local ecclesiarchy unless they have evidence that your youself are corupt.

Just take the Red Redemption as an example. No one messes with them because they don't want to be branded heretics and purged.

@ Bassemandrh: Agree 100%.

I think you're overestimating the power you have to wield there. As others have said, the Departmento Munitorium, Arbites, and other Adepta are going to take issue with any jackass who runs around executing people willy nilly just because they're a Confessor and " they can! ". When you start moving in powerful enough circles, with Judges and Colonels and high ranking Adepts of all sorts, most people aren't going to tolerate your **** just because the Ecchlesiarchy gave you a nice hat.

Hmm...if its as a Confessor that opens aup all manner of old chestnuts...

What is the Imperial Creed?

What is heretical (given that the Ecclesiarchy accepts many different interpretations of whatever the Creed is)?

What power does a priest have to judge? Judge what?

What are the censures they can enact?

These are all difficult questions to answer really so...

The way i'd approach this as a GM is to look at consequences .

Every murder/killing/judicial execution this Confessor commits will have consequences...as a GM i'd be looking to make sure these consequences come home to roost on the Confessor and his friends/allies (other PCs, masters, etc.)

Vengeful friends/family/congregations of the killed come hunting.

Killing someone who turns out to be vital later on in the adventure.

Killing begins to corrupt the Confessor (Khorne keeps a careful on on wilful murderers after all)

Imperial Adeptus authorities unhappy at the behaviour of the Confessor (Arbites, Admionistratum, Munitorum).

Ecclesiarchy masters unhappy with the killing spree (these sinners need to be brought back within the Emperor's Light if possible, not simply butchered).

Inquisitorial master unhappy at the trail of bodies making the acolytes covert activities much harder.

Etc., etc....

Hells Heroes said:

You do not have the authority per se, if no one gives it to you. If you have a writ of authority from lets say Arch-Cardinal Ignato, there would only be few that would object; though the Commissariat and the Adeptus Arbites are two that probably would or could. The former if you kill any IG Guardsmen and the latter if you kill anyone from the Adeptus Terra as a whole without any evidence of heresy. A PDF or any non-Adeptus citizen might be okay to kill, if you can intimidate any local Enforcer that might come around asking questions.

Just imagine a self-proclaimed witchhunter in the middle-ages. If he can convince the other citizens and local militia that he just killed a witch and not an innocent girl, then be it. Killing one of the local baron's soldiers or the duke's excisemen might prove more problematic for him though...

Luthor Harkon said:

@ OP, this is your authority. The authority of the stronger, where 'stronger' means ability to influence, ability to be unassailable, ability to bring more force to bear, and ability to convince everyone you are 'right' (or 'rightous' as the case may be). That and the fact that the Adepta don't (normally) give a **** about non-imperial matters that don't afect the tithe.

Fuedalism boils down to the 'right' or 'authority' of strength of arms. The Duke is the Duke because he has enough strength and influence to hold on to it. Nothing else provides any higher authority (unless you believe in God, or mistakenly think that 'The Law' is not 'the right of the stronger' by another name).

In the case of your cleric, you could claim that your authority comes directly from the Emporer.

As Mao (I think it was Mao) said, "Power comes from the barrel of a gun".

@ Blood Pact. I'm not meaning to imply that any Cleric can/should/would just wander around wasting dudes willy nilly because that would be silly and a bit too grim dark. The consquences would catch up quickly*, I"m discussing sources of authority (power) here, not the will to do so.

*consquences have already been discussed and range from lynching to having a pissed off family hire a Cutter to gut you. Again, these consquences boil down to the right of the stronger.

Personally, I really like the "medieval witchhunter" comparison.

Zakalwe said:

In the interpretations of fluff that I follow (largely GW material), I'm unsure if the clergy has an official right to go around and kill people, I've only read that it happens. A lot. Clerics assign "penances" ranging from donations to service to corporeal punishment to death for various sins, and I have never heard of local authorities intervening, though it stands to reason that (just like with any other official authority up to the Inquisition itself) it depends both on the world and its ruler as well as the cleric's own influence, and the fear of what going against him would mean. Certainly, there have been extreme cases which can see millions burn as a pogrom runs out of control, though by this time it may already be too late for the government or even the Ecclesiarchy itself to intervene and restore order. As far as the Imperial Guard is concerned, it may be interesting to note that they have Confessors in their units as well, and since Commissars have "grown up" in the Schola Progenium they are likely to have a special relationship to the Imperial Creed and the Ecclesiarchy (as well as its emissaries) as well.

Don't the FFG RPG books also deal with this issue? It may be worth re-reading the sections about the Red Redemption.

And just in case OP may find it interesting, a few snippets of fluff:

"Frateris Militia can be formed in a variety of ways and for varying lengths of time. A Preacher discovering a heretical cult may rouse his followers to attack the enemy and cast them out. Confessors are often followed by large entourages of fanatical Frateris, crazed zealots and pious mendicants who will carry out his orders without question and would rather die than fail their leader. [...]

Confessors are fiery individuals whose powerful oratories can stir a populace to rebel against a heretic lord or persuade an army to lay down its arms and surrender to the mercy of the Emperor (which is short and bloody). They can be found almost everywhere, berating those they believe to be faithless, imploring the citizens of the Imperium to denounce heretics and sinners. But it is not just amongst the seething masses that they operate. Confessors act as advisors to Imperial Guard colonels, Planetary Governors and sometimes, with special Ecclesiarchal dispensation, they even lead Wars of Faith against the sworn foes of the Emperor's light. [...]

Preachers make up the bulk of the Frateris clergy. They tend to the day-to-day running of the shrines and chapels and see to the religious need of their congregation. Preachers are also sent with the Imperial Guard to administer to the spiritual needs of the soldiers and they can often be seen in the thick of the fighting, smiting the Emperor's foes and leading their followers by example. Preachers frequently aid the Judges and their Adeptus Arbites in local purges, and their familiarity with the citizenry makes them useful for intelligence gathering by higher officials and the Inquisition."

- organization of the Ecclesiarchy, from the 2E SoB Codex

"[...] As we are all aware, the Order of the Argent Shroud are renowned for their mandate of regulating the activities of not just members of the Ecclesiarchy, but of other Imperial organisations they come into contact with as well. Whilst I appreciate their dedication and success at rooting out traitors and dissenters within our midst, the effect upon the general morale of any fighting arm during their investigations almost always depreciates as their purges continue.

We may be fortunate that incumbent Canoness Carmina is a little less zealous than her predecessors, particularly where the Adeptus Astartes are concerned. I recommend you consult Imperial record Ref: Jan/44698822/SMG regarding the attacks on the forward bases of the Angels Vermillion whilst the Order was under the leadership of Canoness Dissenta. [...] "

- excerpt from a message from General Kurov to Commissar Yarrick, from GW's Armageddon 3 campaign website

I just bought the PDF-Version of "Hostile Aquisition". While it is an RT-game, the point of "Ecclesiarchical Law" is mentioned.

Do to said source material, "the clergy" will prosecute crimes against (what I call) "Church Law", but is clashing jurisdiction more often then not. The two common crime punished by the Ministorum are "Blasphemy" and "Heresy". While Heresy is still not very well definied in the background, "blasphemy" is a thing "HA" states to be "dependt on local law" and seems generally concerned with what I call disrepect to the Imperial Cult.

But as said, your GM will be the final word in this.

Lynata said:

Oh I never meant to imply there was an official sanction, just that under many circumstances a Confessor can and would get away wth it. The Witch Hunter example totally hit the spot.

And to our resident Adepta Sororitas expert: It's been a while, nice to have you back Lynata.