Greetings and salutations, everyone! Let me start off by thanking those of you who helped me with my character a few months back. My group and I worked things out and I am now playing just the character I want to. Now, to business...

It seems our group is going to come into posession of a great deal of PDF hardware in the near future. The PDF is well-supplied by a Forge World and I thus expect it to have all sorts of goodies, both big and small. The question I have is a matter of transport. How exactly does one transport Russes, Valkyries and the like to and from orbit? While a couple of Mass Haulers or Halo Barges seem the obvious choice, I was hoping there'd be something a bit more practical for combat insertions. Besides, it just wouldn't be stylish landing in a flying brick like that.

So basically, are there any crafts in the fluff or IA books that could fill this niche? Worth mentioning is that the PDF's homeworld itself already has a problem with transportation within their solar system as they have to rely on very slow but massive cargo haulers. Even so, I figure they would have some practical dropships or what not.

Thanks in advance!

Heavy Orbit-to-surface haulers tend to be relatively anonymous in fluff, at least in the Imperial Navy. They are just there really as part of the background. My general impression is that they range up to a size capable of transporting an entire mechanized company, that would be something like 9-12 armored vehicles, possibly fewer Lehman Russes if it was pure armor. I believe there was some description of one in the Sabbat Worlds Crusade background book (circa 2005).

The biggest officially released Imperial flyer is the Thunderhawk Transporter, but that's Astartes (and possibly Sisters) only. In the FFG books, so far the largest transport I've seen is the Halo barge in Into the Storm which is probably about the same size as the Thunderhawk Transporter guessing by its cargo capacity, maybe smaller as I'm not sure how much a Land Raider weighs. I'm not recalling anything else off hand.

there are a few in various fluff sources- the Navy's Minotaur-class tugs are noted as being used to set up hexathedrals (flat-pack space stations) in orbit to act as command centres, and "shuttle Ground Attack Vehicles to the surface", while the Guard itself has access to Devourer-class dropships (not capable of independent warp travel, can carry entire regiments of infantry, or tank/artillery forces in at least battalion strength (and looks like it was designed to be able to deploy its' troops as a boarding action after ramming something as well), both mentioned and pictured in Inferno! Mag's Conquest of Obzidion article. There's also the Tetrarch Heavy Lander from Tactica Imperialis (the supplement for Aeronautica Imperialis, not the fluff book, or the in-universe strategic library), which again is capable of carrying forces in at least battalion strength.

The Tetrarch I believe has a model from Forgeworld, and may be the big flying brick/cathedral depicted deploying forces in the Imperial Guard codex (it was certainly in the previous 'dex, and I'm reasonably sure that art made it to the current one as well). If it isn't (which I suspect is the case, as it looks like it's deploying Guardsmen and vehicles in at least Division strength), then there's another big lander for you.

Can't do much about the style though- the imperial design aesthetic for air/space craft leans heavily towards "flying brick" (such as the Thunderhawk) or "flying cathedral/War Rocket Ajax".

There is indeed little exact information on heavy landing craft, as the amount of droops they can deploy in one go is far greater then the scale of an average WH40k tabletop battle, but they obviously are there. If the Imperium deploys Baneblades and Titans, they have to be able to deploy them from 'ship-to-shore' so to say. And, they will have to be able to deploy their 'smaller' war machines in vast numbers, as you cannot conquer a well defended planet with a few thousand men and a score of armoured vehicles.

So, there will be dedicated landing craft. To deploy them, you will need to have Warp capable ships that carry them and their troops aboard (take a look at modern American amphibious ships to have an idea what this means in our world). These ships will be highly expensive and very specialised, but vital to any planetary assault that is more then a short raid. You will probably have to make home rules, but they would basically be militarised transports with vast 'docking bays', with a fair amount of armour and shielding to survive planetside defences (that should have been reduced or destroyed before they enter orbit if your admiral has an ounce of good sense).

Alternatively, you might rule that as in BFG smaller Warp capable craft can land in space ports on the planet. This would make deploying real armies far easier. It would also open the way to specialised Warp capable landing craft (like our Landing Ship Tank) that could directly disgorge their troops after a making a direct landing. But that seems in the WH40k universe a very big step.

Friedrich van Riebeeck, Navigator Primus, Heart of the Void

P.S. By the way, the problem of getting armour and troops on planet in reasonable amounts makes me think of another related problem: how the hell do you get bulk trade in reasonable quantities at acceptable cost from the planet to a Warp capable ship if you have to do it all by lighter. It would be as if we were to supply a massive container ship far out to sea with a container at a time carried by small craft. One obvious solution is orbital docks, where you can stash the load till the transport arrives, but that leaves the question on how to supply that orbital dock in an affordable manner.....hmm, I guess this might ask for 'real' ideas such as massive cable tethered lifts and such. One thing is certain, it makes bulk trade from ship to planet almost impossible without local logistic support.

If you look at the front of the latest Imperial Guard Codex you can see huge landing type vehicle and one or two more in the backgroud.

I would wager that the BFG concept of Frigates and Raiders that can land planetside is probably included in FFG's Rogue Trader setting, but in the interest of efficiency not generally mentioned. For the most part they probably didn't think players would be THAT interested in the nitty-gritty of their trading lines, but obviously its come up. I would say its best to bring it up with your GM and hope they're sensible about it.

So just thinkiing hypotheticly, what sort of component rules would someone use for having a landing capable ship? I'm seeing something that costs space and power and maybe reduces manueverability but has some bonuses to restoring morale and military objectives.

Landing retros, as augmented retros but only usable to help the ship descend safely. Reinforced bulkheads. Heat shielding, same costs as armour plating but no defensive benefits. Actual landing gear to balance the ship on, probably takes as much space as one of the smaller cargo hold options.

Landing sounds like a -30 Piloting test, -10 with retros. A landing sequence causes damage through heat from atmospheric entry, planetary gravity and turbulence during the descent, and the physical shock of landing. I'm thinking three tests, each one you pass reduces the damage, each one you fail makes the next one harder. A sufficiently poor descent profile can make actually landing the ship next to impossible. Not sure what kind of scale for the damage. Just a thought.

The guard would never safely land on a planet with 3 tests, by the guidelines in RAW. Crew Rating 30 is going to fail a +0 test 2 out of 3 times. I'd have the tests start at +0, and get +20 for the landing Retros, +10 for the landing gear, +10 for the heat shielding or something like that. If the craft is specifically designed to land in atmo, it should be able to a majority of the time.

I too concur about the landing part. If it was that dangerous it would never have caught on with any regularity, and getting troops on the ground would be more dangerous than actually fighting the battles. It would likely be best to make it, hold your breath, no check required to land in safe conditions at an established port facility for a starship of the appropriate size. If landing under fire, or landing in poor conditions, perhaps require a test, but not especially harder than your average maneuvering test. Something like augmented retro-thrusters could make even this particular test a joke, while ablative heat shielding could reduce the effects of goofing up.

If you're using dedicated transport craft though, in the style of basically giant barges that came off of a mothership, just treat them as big bulky fliers. They'll almost certainly be able to land where they need to be.

The Astartes take their Battle Barges into atmospheres on occasion, and there's even a precedent for a chapter (the Star Phantoms) deliberately grounding their battle barge to use as a fortress monastary.However, one imagines that this tactic is only successful because the Astartes have the very best pilots/shipmasters and some of the best constructed ships in the galaxy.

I have on occasion mulled over the idea of writing up rules for taking a ship into a planet's atmosphere, and the rules Zarkov sets out sound fairly solid to me... taking a huge, warp capable ship into a planet's atmosphere should be an insanely dangerous act, with a massive chance of failure, an act only possible with the best ships and the best crew.

Imperial guard use Leviathan transport/command vehicles http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Leviathan_(Transport)#.Twc8QzUZcpk & javascript:void(0);/*1325874719578*/ just ignore the bit about the Squats

I'm not too keen on warships being landed on planets - most smaller ships just wouldn't have the integrity to do so and would likely break apart on landing, whilst most bigger ships would cause such devastation by their sheer mass landing that they wouldn't land safely and would be unlikely to be able to make orbit again. It's kind of a one-way trip when a ship lands, until a Mechanicus led salvage effort is launched and the vessel is re-birthed unto the heavens (this is what the Planetbound for Millenia ship package represents).

As for transport ships - they can vary in size from carrying hundreds of men (would only need to be twice the size of a thunderhawk) up to carrying hundreds of thousands and all of their supplies, vehicles and support). Transports have always been part of the background within 40k and to come up with stats for them would be like counting grains of sand on a beach.

Basically if you come up with an idea, that kind of transport could feasibly exist in the 40k-verse. Also try and keep it as narrative based and in the hands of the GM as much as possible. Statting up an entire planetary landing and invasion forces would become a mechanical and dice-rolling nightmare.

Is this a bad time to point out that the small craft in the official rules are much too small to carry cargo or an invasion force in any reasonable time frame? A ship can only carry a dozen or so small craft without landing bays. Multiply a dozen by their cargo capacity by a few hours per trip and you find out it'll take a long, long time just to shuttle the crew down on leave.

I had to house rule the cargo capacities on mine. The small craft in the book are described as 50 m in length or so. Fifty meters is about the size of a modern jetliner, so they should easily be able to carry several hundred men. (I multiplied the capacities on mine by x10).

In the published rules, the Marine Thunderhawk's the biggest transport. It can carry 30 marines, or two tanks. Mind you, the Thunderhawk also has very heavy armour and an obscene amount of firepower, so a true transport that size would likely carry much more.

Cheers,

- V.

The Imperial Guard probably has her own landing vehicles, as I posted earlier they are clearly shown on the picture I posted.
These ships are not fully functional Void Ships but could perhaps be part of it like an externally fixed container.
Judging by the picture the ships shown are about 100 meters high and some 350 meters long.
These ships could ofcourse be system ships but appear to be purpose build ships.

But what would such ships need to have to survive long enough to unload an entire regiment including armour and support vehicles?

- Guns, lots of guns
- Void Shield (like those on the warhound titan?)
- Massive armour

Besides being support they could also serve as a command post/bunker.


So doing some research on Lexicanum I found the following line ( http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Cetaceus#.Twll2G9hurk )

Dropship

The Devourer-Class Dropship is the companion vessel used by the much larger Cetaceus. Several of which are stored within the carrier's massive bays. Each is considerably larger than a Space Marine Thunderhawk Gunship.
Each devourer is a two decked vessel, with the upper deck housing the infantry units and the lower deck holding the heavier equipment such as tanks and artillery.
The devourer is designed for planetary landings and deployment, with the armoured front section of the vessel opening up into four sections, deploying a ramp so that the onboard vehicles and infantry can quickly depart.
The devourer itself is not designed for combat, but is equipped with two heavy lascannon turrets and missile launchers so that they can devastate armoured emplacements in support of ground units.

This appears to be the vehicle in the picture...

Santiago...

Actually, assuming you're referring to the picture from the cover of the guard- that isn't a Devourer, although it may be a Tetrarch. The Devourer can be seen here , along with the Cetaceus, and the Minotaur I mentioned earlier.

I honestly think that some of this stuff might be covered in the "There is only war" Supplement for dark heresy as it's the main-line supplement for Imperial Guard characters. Now if you wanna homebrew some stuff as all good RPGer's wanna do, then The earlier mentioned Lexicanum and various other warhammer 40K wikis exist for this type of information and Forgeworld might be a good source for pictures.

Hmm... According to fluff, larger ships tend not to land well. The largest imperial ship that I've seen fluff for landing successfully was a strike cruiser, and it's noted that this was modified in some way to make this possible.

Large IG drop ships are, according to canon, able to lift a single IG company and their kit, with the Galaxy class transport considered desireable due to it's ability to disembark an entire regiment at once via some sort of unique drop ships unique to this class, which are hard to obtain. (Possibly the shuttles pictured in the above image)

More typically, IG troops are dropped in heavy shuttles, which only hold two or three squads at once, along with their kit.

Epic had this monster as a SM drop ship for a limited time:

BaronIveagh said:

The Badab War books mention a Battle Barge landing on a frozen moon. However, that may have had a lower gravity than an earth sized planet for all we know, making such a manoeuvre possible.

I seem to recall vaugely mentions of a chapter (the Salamanders, I think) using a Battle Barge within a habitable atmosphere as a kind of floating close support artillery platform. I think this was within the 2nd Dark Eldar Codex, but don't quote me on that, I don;t have the book in front of me...

As ever in 40k, the answer to the questions is: various...

Tetarch Heavy Landers are mentioned in the Tacita Imperialis book. these are heavily armed and armoured landers each capable of carrying a whole regiment of men and vehicles to the planet surface. These are noted as being expensive and relatively rare (probably due to high demand and attrition.

The Tacita book also mentions Grav drops which involve getting a starship to project an antigravity cone at the planet and basically letting the men jump out. this is also considered unusual due to the high casualties such operations can incur (if the beam swings off target then the entire column of soldiers enters free fall...). further, an army measured in the millions in sent in a relatively short period of time, so there must be some method of mass insertion.

In the Cain books company size dropships which all transports seem to have, even civilian indentured ones, are employed as well, although the scale of the battles in these books is very small (so might be more suitable for rogue trader).

In the Gaunt's Ghosts series the dropships seem to be a lot smaller but there are transports capable of unleashing hundreds of them at once for planetary invasions. Some larger transports are also described in a few books that can carry far more men and equipment (first and only i think).

In the IG Codex a transport is mentioned being lost in the warp that carried a silly number of men, so it must have been able to disgorge them however.
Some guard units are entirely mounted in Valkeryies (elysian drop troops etc) which presumably can do their own landings.

Just pick whichever suits your campaign, in terms of numbers and scale, best.

Thinking it through, it's probably the case that the larger and more capable armoured combat dropships are a bit like Contemptor class dreadnoughts: rare and precious relic war machines that the modern Imperium struggles to repair and/or replace.

Look at the Stormbird, an Astartes example, which while common in the Horus Heresy era is so rare as to be virtually unknown by M41. (A nice looking fan version of that class of lander can be found here . )

In terms of getting troops from orbit to surface, you can probably pick any two (and ONLY two) of the following options:-

• You can get troops to the surface quickly
• You can get troops to the surface inexpensively
• You can get troops to the surface safely

If money is no object, you can purchase a Tetrarch lander or other heavy combat lander. Otherwise, you're stuck witrh ferrying troops to the surface in halo barges, with all the delay and uncertainty that entails.