Need some opinions after a game last night. The grim reaper lands on player 1 who has a lucky charm. Player 1 uses the lucky charm when rolling for the reaper. Player 2 then uses his misfortune spell on player 1 which makes the result a 1, to kill player 1 (player 1 was a sprite and winning the game at the time).

Here lies the dispute:player 1 thinks the lucky charm trumps the misfortune spell and he gets to choose his die result. Player 2 thinks the lucky charm goes first and then the misfortune spell, which changes the die roll to 1 and player 1 is killed.

Thoughts?

Player 1 is now telling me I need to clarify something. He says player 2 jumped the gun on the misfortune spell and used it before the lucky charm was used. Player 1 says that the misfortune spell would change the die roll to 1 and then the lucky charm would come after and player 1 could choose his result.

I don't think it changes anything. I think the misfortune spell trumps all.

If the Lucky Charm is declared before the other player can cast Misfortune, then the Lucky Charm takes effect and Misfortune will not work. If Misfortune is cast before the Lucky Charm can be used, then Misfortune takes effect and the Lucky Charm will not work!

See Can Vs. Cannot on page 15 of the core rulebook.

Ell.

I don't think the last response is correct. Can v. cannot does not apply in this scenario. You make it seem as if the player who shouts out his spell or ability first will prevail. In this case, doesn't the misfortune spell have the same effect as a counterspell. Player 1 uses a spell, player 2 uses a counterspell. Result is counterspell prevails. Player 1 uses lucky charm, player 2 uses misfortune spell. Misfortune spell prevails. Much more logical than the lets-see-who-can-yell-first style of play.

Actually the last response is correct. It is true that a Counterspell negates another Spell just cast, as this is the correct procedure for Spell casting. However when something like the Lucky Charm is used, it takes effect and cannot be countered with a Spell such as Misfortune. Yes it is a case of first in with the Object or Spell. Can vs. cannot does apply to this situation. If two players declare their intention at the exact same time, then preference is given to the player whose turn it is. If it is neither players turn, I suggest you roll a die to see which player has preference!

Ell.

talismanamsilat said:

I get what you are saying, but where does this come from? Sounds like a house rule. Can v. cannot says nothing about shouting out your ability first.

Greggyjay said:

The last part is a house rule, but the relevant part is the first bit!

If a player casts Misfortune on another character, he may not counter the Spell with a Lucky Charm, as the Misfortune Spell is in effect. If a Lucky Charm is used before Misfortune, then Misfortune will not counter the Lucky Charm, as it is in effect.

Ell.

Misfortune spell specifically says that it changes the result to a 1. If player 1 uses the lucky charm, the misfortune spell allows player 2 to change that result to a 1. The wording on the card contradicts your answer.

Been playing Talisman for 20 years in mulitple groups and never heard of the shout-first rule. Nothing in the rule book about that. Thoughts from anyone else?

If you use the lucky charm, the player can choose the number on the die.

Misfortune cannot be used after the lucky charm because he is not rolling the die.

If it was the other way around (misforune is cast first) then lucky charm cannot be used.

Hi all,

I've registered only to be able to reply to this topic because it seems quite intriguing. As a form of introduction - I grew up with the 2nd edition, now playing 4.5 and still gathering the expansions

Let's take a look at the card texts, because usually the answer is right there, you just have to keep an eye on the wording.

Misfortune - Cast on a character who is about to roll a die. That die automatically rolls a "1".

Lucky Charm - You may discard the Charm when you are about to make a die roll. You chose which result to use instead of rolling it.

Isn't it quite simple? Misfortune says "your die will roll a '1', you're screwed!". However, Lucky Charm says "I choose the result INSTEAD of rolling!". Which means when using the charm you never even attempt the die roll in the first place, you just chose the result Misfortune can only change the hypothetical roll to "1" when you would have actually rolled.

Now to address the issue of "I shouted first, my card wins" (btw nothing about that in the rulebook). Who shouted first doesn't matter, Lucky Charm always wins because of the wording:

Scenario 1) MF used first -> if you're about to roll you will roll a "1" -> LC used -> "I'm not about to roll anymore, I choose the result."

Scenario 2) LC used first -> "I'm not about to roll anymore, I choose the result" -> MF used -> "dude, I'm not making any roll, I choose . You can't cast that on me because the condition doesn't apply."

I think it's either this way, or Velharts take on the subject. That would mean that the use of LC cannot be inserted between MF and the "1" roll, but - hey, why not? Technically, between MF and the "1" roll the player is still about to make that roll

Peace and please share your opinions.

PS. "can v cannot" actually doesn't apply because on neither card the word 'can', 'cannot', 'must', 'have to', 'always', 'never' etc. was used.

Sub51 said:

Hi sub,

You have a point with scenario 1.

But if i read talismansilat explaining about those cards, then it seems that if you use MF first, then you cannot use the LC.

PS: welcome on the forums