Bit of a debate about being able to use frozen outpost (stand defending character to get +2 str until the end of the challenge, +4 if it has a war crest) as the card says choose AND stand, if a card does not kneel to defend can it still be chosen as a target? If it can will the effect resolve?
Standing an already standing character
Underworld40k said:
Bit of a debate about being able to use frozen outpost (stand defending character to get +2 str until the end of the challenge, +4 if it has a war crest) as the card says choose AND stand, if a card does not kneel to defend can it still be chosen as a target? If it can will the effect resolve?
The only condition in choosing a target is that the character is a defending character. You are welcome to choose one that is already standing AND defending at the same time. If the character is already standing, however, you will not be able to give that character the STR bonus because you did not actually stand that character.
Do X to do Y basically means you must completely resolve X in order to do Y... so you actually did not do X(Stand a defending character) in this case so you will not be able to do Y(give +2 or +4 if character has War crest).
I hope that was clear and that it helps!
Bomb said:
Underworld40k said:
Bit of a debate about being able to use frozen outpost (stand defending character to get +2 str until the end of the challenge, +4 if it has a war crest) as the card says choose AND stand, if a card does not kneel to defend can it still be chosen as a target? If it can will the effect resolve?
The only condition in choosing a target is that the character is a defending character. You are welcome to choose one that is already standing AND defending at the same time. If the character is already standing, however, you will not be able to give that character the STR bonus because you did not actually stand that character.
Do X to do Y basically means you must completely resolve X in order to do Y... so you actually did not do X(Stand a defending character) in this case so you will not be able to do Y(give +2 or +4 if character has War crest).
I hope that was clear and that it helps!
Except that Frozen Outpost does not use the "Do X to do Y" format in its text. It says "Kneel Frozen Outpost to choose and stand 1 defending character. (Very important period right here). Until the end of the challenge, that character gets +2 STR (+4 STR instead if it is a War crest character)."
The second sentence does not depend on the first sentence, they are separate occurrences. There is no 'to do' construction between them. Therefore, the second sentence executing (and giving the STR boost) does not depend on the first sentence executing (and the character standing).
All that is required to get the STR boost from Frozen Outpost is that you choose a defending character (the targeting restriction from the first line). Whether or not they were already standing doesn't matter at all.
TheLarz said:
Bomb said:
Underworld40k said:
Bit of a debate about being able to use frozen outpost (stand defending character to get +2 str until the end of the challenge, +4 if it has a war crest) as the card says choose AND stand, if a card does not kneel to defend can it still be chosen as a target? If it can will the effect resolve?
The only condition in choosing a target is that the character is a defending character. You are welcome to choose one that is already standing AND defending at the same time. If the character is already standing, however, you will not be able to give that character the STR bonus because you did not actually stand that character.
Do X to do Y basically means you must completely resolve X in order to do Y... so you actually did not do X(Stand a defending character) in this case so you will not be able to do Y(give +2 or +4 if character has War crest).
I hope that was clear and that it helps!
Except that Frozen Outpost does not use the "Do X to do Y" format in its text. It says "Kneel Frozen Outpost to choose and stand 1 defending character. (Very important period right here). Until the end of the challenge, that character gets +2 STR (+4 STR instead if it is a War crest character)."
The second sentence does not depend on the first sentence, they are separate occurrences. There is no 'to do' construction between them. Therefore, the second sentence executing (and giving the STR boost) does not depend on the first sentence executing (and the character standing).
All that is required to get the STR boost from Frozen Outpost is that you choose a defending character (the targeting restriction from the first line). Whether or not they were already standing doesn't matter at all.
I absolutely agree with that and would have answered it the same exact way as you had he quoted the exact card text. That's what I get for not reading the card and only reading what he wrote.
No worries. Frozen Outpost is one of my favorite cards in my Stark army/War crest deck, so I'm very familiar with its exact wording.
Bomb said:
TheLarz said:
I absolutely agree with that and would have answered it the same exact way as you had he quoted the exact card text. That's what I get for not reading the card and only reading what he wrote.