Hey, so someone has probably already asked this, but I could not find it, so hope someone can help. Playing dead marshes today for the first time and wandered about the fact that both gollum and quest 2b have forced effects. If i quest successfully to put the third token on 2b, does that forced effect take precedence over the gollum forced effect? I would think so, otherwise you have to do an escape test immediately prior to doing another escape test on 2b. Since gollum's forced effect says at the end of the quest phase, 2b's forced effect would take precedence because it occurs right after the 3rd token is laid down during the quest phase. Thoughts?
Dead marshes & gollum forced effects
I agree. Because there is still a window of player actions, after questing is resolved, you are not yet at the end of the phase. Therefore the quest card's effect would happen before Gollum's and if you pass it, then the game is over.
Zjb12 said:
Hey, so someone has probably already asked this, but I could not find it, so hope someone can help. Playing dead marshes today for the first time and wandered about the fact that both gollum and quest 2b have forced effects. If i quest successfully to put the third token on 2b, does that forced effect take precedence over the gollum forced effect? I would think so, otherwise you have to do an escape test immediately prior to doing another escape test on 2b. Since gollum's forced effect says at the end of the quest phase, 2b's forced effect would take precedence because it occurs right after the 3rd token is laid down during the quest phase. Thoughts?
2b becomes the new quest card before the other forced effect would apply.
Zjb12 said:
Hey, so someone has probably already asked this, but I could not find it, so hope someone can help. Playing dead marshes today for the first time and wandered about the fact that both gollum and quest 2b have forced effects. If i quest successfully to put the third token on 2b, does that forced effect take precedence over the gollum forced effect? I would think so, otherwise you have to do an escape test immediately prior to doing another escape test on 2b. Since gollum's forced effect says at the end of the quest phase, 2b's forced effect would take precedence because it occurs right after the 3rd token is laid down during the quest phase. Thoughts?
I play it the same way than you do.
Nate has clarified that forced effects at the end of the quest phase occur at the conclusion of the final quest step, but before players can play actions. Gollum's Forced effect will therefore always occur at the end of the step 3 of the Quest phase. The Capture Forced effect occurs as soon as it is defeated; which in the rules triggers during the step 3 but before its end, as it involves replacing location/quest with the next one and when applicable transferring tokens.
But even if one consider the two effects were simultaneous, you may still choose which effect precedes the other one by the FAQ rules.
Titan said:
I agree. Because there is still a window of player actions, after questing is resolved, you are not yet at the end of the phase. Therefore the quest card's effect would happen before Gollum's and if you pass it, then the game is over.
Actually no, Nate has clarified that Forced effects that occur at the end of the Quest phase (or in case of a "After X attacks" or "After combat resolves" during the Combat phase), then these Forced effects are applied at the end of the last step but before the Player action window. In other words, a Quest resolves at the end of step 3 before the last player Action window. See this thread .
zeb said:
Titan said:
I agree. Because there is still a window of player actions, after questing is resolved, you are not yet at the end of the phase. Therefore the quest card's effect would happen before Gollum's and if you pass it, then the game is over.
Actually no, Nate has clarified that Forced effects that occur at the end of the Quest phase (or in case of a "After X attacks" or "After combat resolves" during the Combat phase), then these Forced effects are applied at the end of the last step but before the Player action window. In other words, a Quest resolves at the end of step 3 before the last player Action window. See this thread .
all this timing has me confused, what the bottom line here? does the quest forced take priority over gollums forced?
zeb said:
Titan said:
I agree. Because there is still a window of player actions, after questing is resolved, you are not yet at the end of the phase. Therefore the quest card's effect would happen before Gollum's and if you pass it, then the game is over.
Actually no, Nate has clarified that Forced effects that occur at the end of the Quest phase (or in case of a "After X attacks" or "After combat resolves" during the Combat phase), then these Forced effects are applied at the end of the last step but before the Player action window. In other words, a Quest resolves at the end of step 3 before the last player Action window. See this thread .
zeb said:
Titan said:
I agree. Because there is still a window of player actions, after questing is resolved, you are not yet at the end of the phase. Therefore the quest card's effect would happen before Gollum's and if you pass it, then the game is over.
Actually no, Nate has clarified that Forced effects that occur at the end of the Quest phase (or in case of a "After X attacks" or "After combat resolves" during the Combat phase), then these Forced effects are applied at the end of the last step but before the Player action window. In other words, a Quest resolves at the end of step 3 before the last player Action window. See this thread .
I disagree here. In the example, you used Escort from Edoras, whose forced effect triggers after the quest is resolved. Gollum's forced effect triggers at the end of the quest phase, not after quest resolution. Unless Nate is telling us that a forced effect that triggers at end of the phase, jumps ahead of player actions, which happen before the phase is over, which would make no sense.
is this scenario not similar to HFG - placing the last token on the quest and having to draw three encounter cards before progressing? FAQ states
As soon as the players determine that the total
committed Willpower is greater than the total Threat in
the staging area, they are considered to have quested
successfully. Any Forced or passive effects initiated by
questing successfully resolve before physically placing
progress tokens.
But would this be correct still if gollum states at the end of the quest phase?
There are some similarities. Dead Marshes is explicit about it, whereas HFG is not. That was another situation where a ruling was needed. In this case, however, the question is what comes first, a forced effect that triggers essentially after quest resolution, or one that triggers at the end of the phase. I think it is pretty clear.
Titan said:
There are some similarities. Dead Marshes is explicit about it, whereas HFG is not. That was another situation where a ruling was needed. In this case, however, the question is what comes first, a forced effect that triggers essentially after quest resolution, or one that triggers at the end of the phase. I think it is pretty clear.
yes, thanks for clearing that up,i see that they arent really the same now, its really between TWO forced effects and which comes first,i think you are correct in this (well thats how ive been playing it till now)
Titan said:
I disagree here. In the example, you used Escort from Edoras, whose forced effect triggers after the quest is resolved. Gollum's forced effect triggers at the end of the quest phase, not after quest resolution. Unless Nate is telling us that a forced effect that triggers at end of the phase, jumps ahead of player actions, which happen before the phase is over, which would make no sense.
I think you have a point. Indeed, the phrasing is different between "after quest resolves" and "at the end of the quest phase". Sorry for that. So combat/quest resolves = end of last step but before player action window and end of phase = after last player action window.
Can we also say that when a quest is "defeated", this takes place at the same time point than a quest being resolved?
I hope we will get a better timing sequence chart in the next FAQ because this becomes a bit complicated...