Ok, for those that havent read the books, the balrog is something of a funny character to portray. compared to John Howe and PJ's version, it is said to be much smaller, hidden in shadow, and the wings part is up for debate also. So seeing as one of the best parts of this game is that it gives a fresh non-peter jackson-view of tolkiens creation, how do you think the balrog will be portrayed?

personally i think the minotaur-ish portrayal is what we will see- which is great, it certainly not wrong, however it would be nice to see something a little different. for instance it was nice to see aragorn carrying narsil in the hero picture

it will be like jacksons, huge and monsterish with wings. I predict this!

goat on fire +/- can of redbull

In the iron Crown Enterprises Version, there were different versions of the (player character) Balrog. I think there were three, one flaming one, one slimy one, can't recall he third one. Maybe we'll get different versions for different encounter decks?

Rubinon said:

Meccg (one mentioned) had one Balrog avatar, character card. You could use him (it?) as is, but most people used one of the three mode cards available. Sadly, most also only used the Great Shadow Balrog, as it was easily the best from a gaming standpoint. Fiery Balrog or Slimy One could both be built around, but lacked the ridiculous power of the Shadow one (who was basically improved Sauron). Further, there were two hazard versions of it, Balrog of Moria and Durin's Bane. Throw in a sixth Balrog card as there was also an Ally card the minions could recruit.

I hope it is done well whatever version FFG will use. Keep up the good work on the art for the cards and by the by when are the sleeves coming out (and why have the nazgul and daughter of nimrodel dropped)

Interesting Kuffdaddy - I was also wondering as to where the sleeves were? Espeically considering the bloody starwars ones are on their way to the stores and that LCG hasn't even been released yet!?? WTF!?

As for the Balrog - there is another thread which debates this here: http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?efid=201&efcid=4&efidt=559078&efpag=1#588273

Essentially, a Balrog is a minor god - a Maia, as described in Tolkein's texts. The Istari are another form these high-powered beings took (Gandalf, Radagast, Saruman etc...). The Balrog's were 'tac-nukes' of Morgoth's forces back in the first age, and many were either slain or sealed away by the elves and associated Maia (and possibly even the higher spirits themselves).

If you want to read more about these creatures, don't look to The Lord of The Rings - you should check out the Silmarillion for a bit more on how they were depicted and the power levels portrayed.

I have no issue with them being large and giant-sized. Giants were certainly a feature in Tolkiens books, so I don't think size would be an issue in context of lore.

Bring on Khazad Dum!

Klaen said:

Yes i took part in that discussion, i think it was more what stats it would have and not so much on the appearance, and regardless of where you look there is no actual definitve appearance given to the balrogs, there are literally hundreds of pages on the internet discussing this and no conclusion has been made, perhaps by tolkiens own design this is so

dont get me wrong i have no problem with it being giant etc. it would just be nice to see i different approach

I think you're right Rich. I believe Tolkien purposefully designed the Balrog to be vague and up for imaginative interpretations from his audience. The text certainly leaves one not quite knowing what he is describing, but this certainly adds a very ancient and mysterious atmosphere to the scene. Enough of me ranting about how I feel...overall, I think it would be quite awesome if the gave him a goat-like body, hooves, horns, wings, etc. perhaps put some flames around him, and of course, we can't forget his sword and whip which should be engulfed in flame. No matter what interpretation the design team chooses, I am confident it will look great.

DurinIII said:

no, he is not some kind of christian "devil"... lets leave teh goat and horns and hoofs and other "demon" crap out of this.

Sorry booored, but my guess is as good as yours.

As to your discomfort with "demon" crap, the Balrog is a "demon of the ancient world."

im a strong atheist and have ZERO wish to bring religion up in a forum i love,not to mention not wanting to spark yet another endless argument, BUT it must be noted here Tolkien was a strong catholic, and whether you like it or not, just like Melkor was probably in the image of the Devil, there is every chance balrogs were inspired by demons from hell.......i still think regardless FFG are going down that road, still i think we all are entitled to our own images, and i think whatever they use its gonna be awesome!

Well, Hell description changes from Dante's chamber of horror to Jean-Paul Sartre where it is a room with a couple of annoying strangers, so there is room to interpretation.

But I also like that Tolkien's world does not use Christian iconography. This is a good thing because it prevents any restrictions in the imaginary world setting. That is why I also like Lovecraft: his description of horror is not linked to Christian mythology, neither are his creatures and thus is really free of actual references and original.

zeb said:

very true, ive seen so many forums discuss links to religion in middle earth, but my opinion is, that if you want it to be there it can be, but this certainly does not mean it is forced upon you, ive read the books countless times and ive never once imagined anything in middle earth to be christian-like (probably why i can get so immersed in it) and i agree again about your point about it not restricting the world setting.

but as i have said, i have very little interest in religion so may be completely wrong about what he was getting inspiration from, though my origional point does seem to crop up in most books ive read that study hs works

though once again im not gonna argue this point till the sun sets, otherwise id be condradicting myself!

It's got to be over 10 years since I read the books, so I can't really say I remember any details, but I suspect we'll get some sort of fiery demon type of thing, the classic interpretation or whatever. The Minotaur is of course the classic labyrinth-beast, so at the end of the labyrinth of tunnels etc of Moria, it's only natural to get something horn-tastic and covered in flame. According to wikipedia, the quote there of the Moria Balrog looks "like a great shadow, in the middle of which was a dark form, of man-shape maybe, yet greater". So, um, could be anything really. A dark form in the middle of a shadow? I mean, the card could just be completely black...

Though something dripping in slime could be equally amazing!

I wasn't actually all that fussed on seeing a Balrog in either Khazad-dum or the Dwarrowdelf Cycle, but now I've been thinking on it, I'm really pretty excited!

spalanzani said:

yes im sure it will be the cherry on the cake (trying to think of balrog equivalent of that saying....couldnt come up with one)

I enjoy reading your comments Rich; as a Religion major, we probably speak a different language in that regard, though, I love talking Religion, and if ever you would like to, email me! [email protected].

call it a demon, shadow, beast, evil, whatever, just give me some amazing art like the other cards have done!

DurinIII said:

ha! something we disagree on....that is a rare thing though i feel i may have consequently put my foot in too deep here (abort thread......abort thread...) though going well off topic here i do enjoy a good philosphoical debate on the matter, though my knowledge=0, i may take you up on that!

Haha Rich; I know right? I am quite intrigued actually. So far, everything you have said on this message board I have agreed with and enjoy reading. Mainly it is because you come across as a genuinely nice person, and I like talking to sincere and nice people. As far as philosophy, indeed, I love a good philosophical talk myself. My favorite three subjects are Religion, Philosophy, and History. I would love to have such a conversation with you in the future.

All right, enough of this way off topic conversation here. Sorry all you other guys who actually read this post hoping to find an opinion about the Balrog. Enough of my non-LOTR card game thoughts. Play on!!!

I personally hope the balrog looks like the Grinch... or Yoko Ono.

the problem with talking on a academic level with religious people is that if you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people.

I'm pretty sure we are going to see the Balrog in Khazad-dum, in addition to in the Dwarrowdelf's 6th pack. Just take a look at the new avatars and you can see one piece of artwork with the shadow of the Balrog in it!

Narsil0420 said:

yes well spotted, i was rather exited when i noticed that one

One of my favourite Balrog interpretations:

/wolf