Many thanks to you.

From the Watcher AP:

To the West-Door: What happens to Treachery cards I reveal during the 1b part of the quest? Are they discarded without resolving their effects?

Striking Tentacle: For timing purposes, do I first resolve the Forced effect and then I reveal the Shadow card dealt to it to calculate the total damage dealt by the attack?

Thrashing Tentacle: If I get unlucky, do I deal the damage to a character of mine INSTEAD or IN ADDITION to the damage I deal to the tentacle? Instead, I think, since the Forced effect looks like a substitute one to me.

Grasping Tentacle: If I get unlucky, do I nullify the damage my character with the tentacle attached would normally do? Since damage is dealt at Step 3 and the Forced effect takes place at Step 1, I tend to believe damage is nullified. Correct?

Serazu said:

West-Door uses the word "reveal", so Treacheries will go off, as will that one location that could add +5 threat and another Tentacle.

ST: Yes, when you pick the ST to attack (step 1), you need to check for its Forced. Totally sucks when you A) reveal a Tentacle or shadow effect and B) ST has Black Uruks as its Shadow Effect = undefended + 2 more shadow cards…

TT: If you flip a Tentacle or a shadow effect, a character takes the damage, none of it go to the TT.

GT: I think the GT doesn't take any damage, it becomes an attachment and currently attachments don't take damage. I had a Warden of Healing today with 3 GTs attached to him at the end of the game. Most of the time you actually want GT to remain an attachment and in play, so it doesn't get shuffled back (increasing chances of being able to engage the Watcher and decreasing chances of either ST or TT's Forced triggering successfully). As long as it is on a unimportant ally (like Warden, attack 0, def 1 initially), who cares if he goes to att 0, def 0?

Go off = discarded?

And why is the word "reveal" so important? If memory doesn't fail me, in the HfG AP, the first two quest cards mention the word and, if Treacheries are revealed, they produce their effects. Unless the "and add it to the staging area" wording after the "reveal" part is what makes them to resolve.

Sorry, go off as in resolved.

As to "reveal":

"(1.19) Card Effects during Setup
"When Revealed" effects are resolved if the cards are
revealed during setup. A player can trigger responses
during setup, following the normal game rules. Players
cannot take Actions during setup." (FAQ, p. 4)

and

"(1.22) "When Revealed" Effects
A card is only considered to be revealed if the card or
game effect causing the card to enter play specifically
uses a form of the word "reveal"." (p. 5)

Lots of questions:

Dreadful Gap

1. If revealed during the Quest phase, I still resolve the phase as normal and then I proceed to the travel phase. Right?

2. Does DG become the active location instantly upon revelation? If another location was active and produced special effects for being active, do these effects seize to be at the moment DG is revealed?

Goblin Follower

3. It is revealed during the staging step of the Quest phase and it engages me. Does it still contribute its threat during the Quest phase resolution? I guess not, since engaged enemies do not contribute their threat.

Mountain Warg

4. The unofficial FAQ state that "If Mountain Warg is dealt a shadow card with an effect, but that effect is canceled for whatever reason, he was still dealt a shadow card with an effect and would not return to the staging area after it attacks". I suppose the same goes for Shadow effects that, due to specific circumstances, cannot produce effects, such as in a case where MW attacks, I defend and is dealt Black Uruks as a Shadow card. In the above example, the enemy stays in the staging area. In other words, whenever MW is dealt a Shadows card with the "Shadow: . . ." wording, it stays in the staging area no matter what. Correct?

Washed Away

5. According to its text, the following cards from the following sets comprise the new encounter deck:

Foundations of Stone: everything

Goblins of the Deep: Enemies and Treacheries

Twists and Turns: Enemies and Treacheries

Hazards of the Pit: everything (just Treacheries anyway)

Everything else is removed from the game. Right?

So:

6. If, when 2B quest is fulfilled and is followed by 3B and, at that moment, Zigil Mineshaft was at the staging area, it is removed from the game. Right?

7. If, when 2B quest is fulfilled and is followed by 3B and, at that moment, Watchful Eyes was attached to a Hero, it is discarded to be shuffled into the new encounter deck. Right?

Out of the Depths

8. The chain symbol of Deeps of Moria is presented here instead of the torch of the Twists and Turns. This is obviously a mistake and the TaT is used just like in the previous quests (without the Cave Torch and its locations, since the 3B) and not the DoM. Correct?

Foundations of Stone rulesheet: "Creating a Staging Area"

9. If I play solo, do I need to bother with it?

Thanks.

1. Yes, but DG immediately becomes the active location and possibly switches with the former active location. So total threat in the staging area could change…
2. Yes, I think. We don't have a complete timing schedule, but a conditional game effect of the former active location will stop exactly when it isn't anymore the active location.
3. You are right. Enemies engaged witha player don't count their threat.
4. Should be correct, with one exception: The shadow card has been discarded prior flipping around (e.g. with Dawn Take You All). But I'm not 100% sure about that.
5. One additional condition for your list: For non-FoS cards, only the cards currently in the discard pile will be taken for the new encounter deck. So the actual distribution will change from game to game.
6. EDIT: Yes
7. EDIT: Yes
8. Didn't notice that, but yes, that should be just a small mistake.
9. No, not that I know. The intention in multiplayer games is that players run separate games. In solo mode, this shouldn't have any effect.

HilariousPete said:

Judging from EDIT # 7, nr. 5 is not totally correct and all non-FoS Enemies and Treacheries will join the new encounter deck, even those previously in play. Mmm?

Thanks. Oh, and I 've made a mistake before. The "Hazards of the Pit: everything (just Treacheries anyway)" is not totally correct. HotP also sports locations, which are removed from play when the new encounter deck is made.

A question of timing:

A hero has Cave Torch attached. He uses it to place 3 progress tokens on Branching Paths. Which of the two Forced effects is resolved first? As the active (and only in solo games) player I get to choose if two effects resolve simultaneously, but, in our case, are the two effects truly resolved at the same time? It seems to me that Cave Torch's effect should be the first to resolve the moment the card exhausts and before I place the tokens on the location and then I explore the Paths and resolve its effect. Correct?

Serazu said:

You're welcome. Re: number 5 - no, only the enemies and treacheries in the discard pile (-> previously discarded, or discarded from play by 3B) are part of the new encounter deck. But not the enemies+treacheries that have been in the encounter deck itself.

To your new timing question: Whether they should trigger simultaneously or not depends on the granularity of how fine an action is segmented… If you consider exhausting the torch, placing 3 progress and removing the location as 1 action, you may choose the order of the forced effects. If you mentally put a small break between these 3 things and look at it as 3 separate actions, you are not allowed to choose. I have no clue which is the case, we are still in need of a detailed a timing schedule for this game. But by my instincts, i would say all the things count as 1 action (since its 1 single action that set those things off), but that's a pure guess.

HilariousPete said:

I think it would be logical for Cave Torch's forced effect to trigger before Branching Paths, as exhausting the Torch is the cost, and placing the tokens on Branching Paths is the effect - logically costs would come before effects. But as HP says, there isn't really a mandate in the rules at present to follow this reasoning.

jjeagle said:

Before i use to play like is happen in the same time and according to rules first player can choose the order but now i think you more right. Exhausting is cost and place tokens i effect. 100% sure is should be play in this order.

Good day to you.

After several months away from the game I 've just replayed the Into the Pit scenario. A question arose:

The Bridge of Khazad - Dum dictates that, while it's the active location, players cannot play cards. I 've always assumed that it included all cards, even events. They too are "played" after all. The wording in Vilya however is somewhat confusing; it makes a distinction between "play" and "put into play", much like in the AGoT card game. Having that game as a guide, whenever I use Vilya in the planning phase, I treat the revealed card as "played", whereas in all other phases, I treat it as "put into play". With the above in mind, I believe that, even though the Bridge is the active location, I can still use Vilya and put a card into play, provided I do this in any other phase save the planning one.

Am I correct here?

Play means the card must enter play from your hand. But that doens´t explain the wording on Vilya.

From the FAQ:

(1.16) The phrase “put into play” If a card effect uses the phrase “put into play,” it means that the card enters play through a card effect instead of through the normal process of paying resources and playing the card from hand. “Put into play” effects are not considered to be playing the card, and will not trigger any effects that refer to a card being played. “Put into play” will, however, trigger any effects that occur when a card “enters play”.

That's what I meant. Didn't explain myself that good.

But why the strange wording on Vilya??

Ok, so Vilya is unaffected by the quest, no matter which phase I opt to use it. Right?

Serazu said:

Yes

Alright wanting to join in on this,
1) with Eleanor as a hero, she says "discard that card and relpace it with the next card from the encounter deck" when exhausting to cancel a treachery, so doe that mean it is not technically "revealed" ? This seems to make her awefully powerful.

2) The rule book near the end offers a house rule to avoid using shadow cardswhen introducing the game to new people. I was wondering if anyone had any input on how much this takes away from the game.

3) Surge and doomed resolves at any time shown not only "when revealed" right?

1. Bad wording, the new card is also revealed. FAQ

2. Never tried it.

3. Yes

Thanks for all the answers. Another question:

Behind Strong Walls

While seeming awesome at first sight for powerful defenders to defend twice, when would it be the appropriate action window to actually use it? I fail to find one.

Serazu said:

wouldnt it just be the same time as if yuo had unexpected courage attatched and were using that?

rich

It never really happened to use UC for defending twice. And I still see no open window for using the Event effectively. What am I missing here? The two Action windows I see in the rules chart are either too early (the first) or too late (the last).

Serazu said:

This is a common mistake I see. The chart is sometimes misleading to people. The 'resolving attacks against you' part of the phase is green which according to the chart key means "you can take actions generally, or between the game steps stated in the rules". And then if you go to page 18 in the rulebook for the Combat Phase stuff, and under 'Resolving Enemy Attacks' it says "When resolving enemy attacks, the players follow these 4 steps, in order. Players may play event cards and take actions at the end of each step". The four steps it then lists are: 1. Choose an enemy 2. Declare a defender 3. Resolve shadow effect 4. Determine combat damage.

Of which you can play event cards and take actions at the end of each one. So there's actually quite a few places you can use Unexpected Courage and Behind Strong Walls during this part of the Combat Phase.

I think the chart just kind of needs redone because they don't show all of the steps of combat written out, the color code is sometimes missed, and they use the phrase 'step' confusingly in the chart description.

Right, right. My bad here. Thanks to all of you.