How do you feel about rules additions so far? Too little, just right or BLoat? (for example: Shame rules, mounted rules, runes, engineering, holy items, attuned items)

Are there rules not covered that you'd like to see?

jh

I'm mostly okay, as GM.

Disease, Corruption etc. all tasty tasty tasty. Permanent Wounds pretty good too. Mounts fine.

Some rules aren't seeing use but just because Players haven't taken characters in that direction (e.g. the engineering items dwarf stuff, but I like that stuff myself, the options for nobles since none are noble).

Shame is probably the weakest. It doesn't really add that much beyond a progress tracker style approach to social confrontations and it might be the one I don't use just "incoporate some ideas from into such dual tracker" (where each side can advance their argument or diminish others, with half way points indicating compromise won so you want to win without other being too far along to "win completely" (influenced by Burning Wheel).

High Elf magic is the thing I most want to see added.

I don't own Lure of Power neither Blackfire Pass...yet!

I like a lot the rules that have appeared in the supplements so far.

Probably, the ones I like the most are the Witch and Warlock rules. I had to house rule alot 2nd ed to include Witches, while in 3rd ed the rules have a very nice flavour (I house ruled that warlocks can have acces to rank 3 spell instead of the rank 1 limitation of Witches, but that is because I have a weakness for witches )

I would like to see rules covering Necromancy, Deamon summoning, Elves (like Dwarfs in blackfire pass) and probably some more magic items. The trend from the 1st to the 2nd edition was to render magic items as a very rare thing, which I like. But still, I would like to see some, specially the cards, to show them to my players and hide them back behind my GM screen.

I'm beginning to turn my coat of Warhammer. Mainly though because we haven't been playing for a while. But I'm also really bored of spending insane amounts of money to get one new rule, a couple of neat cards and a boat load of re-print and mish-mash fluff. EoN was released ages ago and now they return to Ubersreik to tell me that mainly everything that I ruled was wrong...

I still like the system but I'm loosing interest of spending any more money on it.

I can hear where you are coming from. What would Ffg need to release to grab your walle- attention back, Doc?

I love the sets and the new cards that come with them, though I feel like the number of actual rules introduced is fairly light. Some are more consequential than others, too, like corruption, while rules for mounts don't see as much use in our games (sets with that type of stuff is less useful for our group). I could stand to use a few more rules, but not too many more. I don't want to have a ton of minutiae to remember, just enough to give me a framework for some of the more exciting situations that come up in play and for the iconic elements of the setting. Regardless, we get enough out of the new sets with the cards and Chaos books that we're quite happy to keep buying them.

Daedalum said:

I dunno. All future essential rules in one expansion? A bigger campaign? Better dices! Dice cup! I have almost everything published in WFRP3-line (excluding Tomes and vaults) and I'll still probably by future supplements too. It's just that I buy them to my collection and don't bother to read them.

I forget to say!

Supplements with background for Orcs and Waaaaargh magic and rules and another for Skaven and Skaven magic!

I would prefer they do not include High Magic as a possibility for PC's, it is supposed to be very powerful, I prefer to have it only as background and for NPC's. In 1st ed, if I recall correctly, there was an attempt to rule High Magic for PC's and it was a big critical miss!

Having some time to think I realized that in my opinion Warhammer is still lacking some "older gamer"-material.

I don't mean actual age but "hobbyist age". Most of WFRP seems to be created with "beginners" in mind. All additions are quite small and general and have been covered mostly before. What I would like to see is some consistency in the products and the style they are published. PG-13 restriction seems to be the guideline for all products - even though there's a little boob in Slaanesh drugs are still missing.

Updated tomes with all the rules and/or POD ruleset/cards would be a nice addition instead of forcing us to by large boxes with adventures and fluff that might not be used (if you're like me and like to run sandbox games in more 1st editonish enviroment).

Yepesnopes said:

Here's my opinion on high magic. Elven high magic is not mastered instantly by apprentice elven wizards. They're learning the same crap basic skills as humans. Sure, it's got a different' twist to it, but just because a character is an elf and the words "high magic", doesn't mean that his apprentice skills blow the apprentice bright wizard's spell skills out of the water (so to speak). In fact, high magic apprentices may be noticeably weaker initially because they learn the spell masteries over a lot longer period of time.

The trouble is that when people say "high magic" they instantly assume that it has to be uber powerful for PC elves and break the game. It doesn't need to be that way just because a few of us fanboi's get these delusions of grandeur in our eyes about these earth-shaking 1st rank spells. NO WAY. I just needs to have a twist, diversity and take a lonnnnnnnnnnnnnnng time and a lot of character ranks to make it to true high magic.

Elven babies afterall aren't casting spells at birth and with their slower maturation rates and longer cultural standing, means slower advancement. It doesn't have to be the humanocentric way. Elven PCs should not be any more powerful spellcasters than their human counterparts. In fact, they may be less-so initially, but have the capability to advance to much, much higher in ranks due to their long lifespans. IMO, True Elven High Magic mastery should occur at rank 10, when a character is about 750 years old.

If I were to house rule it right now, I'd say that elves have access to all winds of magic, have to purchase their spells like others, and add an extra purple die (and maybe another black) to all checks (with no chaos effect..just failure). It would be that simple.

Thoughts?

jh

An interesting point on which I agree.

The house rule you propose is, on the other hand, omiting the essence of High Magic (see references like in Tome of Mysteries). High magic deals with Qhaysh, which combines all the winds of magic. Being capable of waving the combined winds of magic is a very different thing than having access to all of them individually, i.e. Witches, Warlocks (Witch Song) or Sorcerers (Winds of Change).

I recall a nice attempt to house rule high magic in the second edition, I don' t remember the author but his work is /was in the awesome Strike to Stun webpage. Mainly, what he proposed was that High Magic spells were composed by combinations of spells of the different schools. To give an example a high elf mage could combine the winds Hysh, Azyr and Aqshy to create a fireball-like spell that acted like a fireball against most enemies but was more effective agains demons. He proposed many ideas for combining different winds.

From my point of view, this is a better starting point for house ruling high magic than just weaving the winds of magic separately.

They could easily create a high magic mechanic.

For example:

Elven apprentices get a High Magic order card which states that using this one slot, Elven mages can pile all 8 order cards as they learn them, all in the same talent slot.

Then have apprentices buy all 8 order talents (if the talent limit per career is around 3, then you would need 3 different careers to buy the initial High magic order and then the 8 other order cards).

Add to that that they need to learn at least one spell per rank for each order before being allowed to buy another order card, and you have a pretty long process to reach High Magic.

Also, the High Magic spells could often be lengthy rituals unfit for combat but with tremendous powers.

This said, these rules would mostly be used by NPCs, probably... or very high level campaigns.

All the rules and tools beyond coreset are 'season to flavour' in my view. So happy for more as long as management of bits doesn't blow out much further. I think location, item, nemesis, condition etc cards can add a lot of context specific rules without the feeling of bloat or overburden.

Regarding some more thoughts on High Magic:

I like the idea of a spell-weaving type of effect, however where these systems always fall down is this expectation is that b/c a person casts high magic that somehow the player gets to start as an overpowerd Gandalf, while everyone else is a lowly peon.

More ideas on house ruling it would simply require some standards of effect:

* Rank 1 high magic is not more powerful than any other rank 1 wind magic spell, it can just be tailored more. They have to be nerfed somewhat because in balance, other careers should not be outshined by some elven apprentice wizard. For example: A high magic, Rank 1 fire spell should be slightly less powerful than a Bright Wizard because the Bright Wizard is specialized and hence doesn't have the versitility.

* Rank 2..etc.

In a sense, High Magic seems to me more like D&D-Magic, where the wizard always has at his fingertips the perfect spell for the occasion (think of the D&D spell list..how it simply replaced all skill checks and out of the box thinking whatsoever (IMHO).

I wouldn't want it to "replace" other characters, races, or skill combinations..however that may be what we'd be looking at.

I like that game balance occurs with careers like the witch. It would be preferred that something similar occur with Elven Apprentice Wizards.

jh

i think its up to the GM and players how much bloat if any they want. in other games i felt like i had to include every new book but with warhammer 3e i feel like the strength of the system is based in large part on the fact i can pick and choose what i want to use.

i dont see myself purchasing too much more after heroes call though. i have the core, adv toolkit and all four chaos power boxes now and with the excpetion of a comprehensive campaign source guide i feel like i have all the tools i could ever want or need. its ok with me lol ive been neglecting rogue trader and deathwatch for awhile so its not like ffg wont get my money.