Sometime ago, I did a little post about how Inquisitors cannot easily gain possession of their own ship, while Rogue Traders are basically handed one, and told to go with it. This is a bit of an extension of that. So, I understand that the point of Rogue Trader could be described as to get stuff, and occasionally fight some evil along the way, while Dark Heresy is fighting evil, and occasionally getting some new stuff, if you survive, but I don't really get why, as an Inquisitor (Ascension), I have the authority to declare a world Exterminatus (not really, due to most world's value, regardless of the threat, but the fluff would have me believe so), but getting some of the better gear is so **** hard, where as, in Rogue Trader, the same gear will probably be relatively easy to get (+30 for just one if Very Rare or easier; a bonus Inquisitors don't get), and they will likely start with a higher PF vs the Influence many Inquisitors will have, and since the Lord Captain "paid" for it, though they take no decrease in PF for getting stuff, they get to keep it forever, where as an Inquisitor gets to keep it for a bit, and then return it (permanent ownership is another -20).

So, a newly minted Rogue Trader is heading out into the Expanse, to make their fortune, and wanting to be ready for almost anything, decides to go for some of the best gear. He decides he wants to kit himself out with a Plasma Pistol (VR), an Inferno Pistol (VR), a Power Sword (VR), a suit of Power Armor (ER), and a Refractor Field (VR) (all regular quality, it is his first trip) with Profit Factor 50 (a possible starting PF at Rank 1):

• One roll each for the Plasma Pistol (VR), Inferno Pistol (VR), Power Sword (VR),and Refractor Field (VR), each at -20 (Rarity) +30 for Scale = diff 60, which is pretty good, and will result in permanent ownership.
• One roll for the Power Armor (ER) at -30 (Rarity) +30 (Scale) = diff 50, which is slightly harder, but doable, and for the best armor in the main book, at reg quality, and will result in permanent ownership.

VS

An newly elevated Inquisitor has finally found the base of a cult she has been looking for, for several years, under her Master's instruction, even after he was killed by them. Ready to finally wipe this cult from the galaxy, she decides to use the full power of her title, and kit herself out with the best things the Inquisition could get for her, and be ready for anything. Doing some searching, she wants a Plasma Pistol (VR), an Inferno Pistol (VR), a Power Sword (VR), a suit of Power Armor (ER), and a Refractor Field (VR) (all regular quality, as the Inquisition is a bit leery of her likelyhood of success) with Influence 50 (going to require some work, even as a Rank 9 character):

• One roll each for the Plasma Pistol (VR), Inferno Pistol (VR), Power Sword (VR),and Refractor Field (VR), each at -20 (Rarity) = diff 30, which is rather hard, and will NOT result in permanent ownership. For that, the diff decreases to 10.
• One roll for the Power Armor (ER) at -30 (Rarity) = diff 20, frightening, and will NOT result in permanent ownership. For that, the Inquisitor and retinue must get more Influence.

So, one could argue that the Inquisitor's job is a bit more important; while Rogue Traders broaden the boundaries of the Imperium (some do), Inquisitors keep what it already holds in its grasp. Yet, it seems that the lower level Traders and Co can much more easily acquire stuff than the higher level Inquisitor and Retinue, and even keep it. Why is this? I know that there are some Talents Inquisitors can get that make Influence tests easier (Good Rep, if the chosen group matters, though Rank 11-12 will likely be required, without an Elite Advance, some other augmenting Talents for specific groups, (usually rerolls), though Inquisitors can't take some of them, and Ear of the Lord Sector), but a starting Rogue Trader gets most of that equivalent, without needing to get anything, and can start with a better base PF/Inf score, making the Inquisitor's job seem that much harder. Short of going into a shop selling any of the above gear, and whipping out the rosette, and saying you are seizing said gear on your authority, which the book suggests against doing, it seems really hard to prepare for your job. Am I supposed to believe that the average shopkeeper just has less than 40 Influence, and so you automatically succeed, do they spend oodles of time requisitioning the manufacture of each piece from a craftsman, and wait for them to be completed, or am I missing something within the (limitless?) power of the Inquisitor?

When getting items you have two choices, one you can borrow an item and get it right away assuming you make your roll (with penalties for duration, etc)or you can commission an item (make an influence roll still, but no penalties for duration, just scarcity) and keep it forever. The trick is you must wait for them to be built. See page 136 of Ascension on the rules for commisioned items. The rarest items will take many weeks to get.

andrewm9 said:

See, that's kind of what I mean. Inquisitors are supposed to be working in a relam beyond "mere" money, but they either give it back, or wait weeks, weeks where the things they wanted it for, they don't have it. Meanwhile, Rogue Traders spread around some garnish, and get what they want, as they want, right then, and forever. It seems strange that an Inquisitor is forced to wait, when his mission might be much more dire, because he no longer spends money. At that rate, he'd almost have to requisition what he wants, pen it down, have a craftsman forge duplicates of each piece, and then use the loaners for a number of weeks, till his own are done. Then, he might not be able to find someone who can make them; refractor fields might be pretty hard to make, since they don't appear in main DH or RT.

I think this really boils down to Ascension being a poorly thought out book. I've never heard of full blown Inquisitors needing to borrow their equipment in any other fluff. They always have pretty well stocked inventories.

Use Contacts from Inquisitor's Handbook to increase the availability of items. Then, get a ship permanently assigned to you. Done.

I noticed the issue some time ago as well...The solution i came up with was simple...My inquisitors ALL have at least 1 armor and weaponsmith acolyte and techpriest with the associated creation talents within at least one of their cell teams and have the Inquisitor use their influence to get all the necessary equipment for the acolytes to create whatever needed wthin their associated fields. As for gaining a ship permanently i agree with Bluntpencils idea of using contacts and influence to get a ship assigned OR ( to give the players some bonus XP and skill ) to have the PCs RP a discussion with a ships captain to sign a contract with the Inquisition under command of the Inquisitor and his senior field agents...For getting a ship i actually use a mix of both methods...first one is used to locate and secure a potentially suitable ship and captain to meet the potential needs of the PCs Inquisitor and the second method to give the PCs some actual RP time and bonus XP ( if they succeed ) as well as putting them in better favor with their Inquisitor if they succeed ( perhaps part of a potential test for ascension )

I think playing an Inquisitor in DH is bound to be as disappointing as playing Superman in a superhero rpg: there is no way that a stats-and-numbers game system can do justice to the god-like powers established in the fluff. Even after my players hit Ascention level, Inquisitor-hood will remain an npc-only option...

The simple reason is that the two games have separate systems because they are not meant to be the same game. The systems are specific to the intended flavour of the game that the game designers wanted. If you want your Inquisitor to have a starship, rule of cool says to just give them one and don't worry about the aquisition system. Rogue Trader is entirely based around the ship, hence the importance and availability of that stuff in the system.

It's also worth noting that in most fluff Inquisitors don't have their own ships. Most of them seem to travel via Rogue Trader vessels, sometimes keeping small craft to themselves like Eisenhorn's gun cutter. I'd assume that's for the sake of subtelty, it's hard to travel incognito on your own imperial cruiser.

Well, while I get the ship, and agree there, most Inquisitors don't own their ship, the amount of difficulty getting their stuff is a bit fearful. I'm more than certain that some of my problem is being used to just "spending points" in the Table Top, while some is also all my other role playing, where getting gear isn't hard; getting super-enchanted gear, that can be, but in 40k games, there usually isn't enchanted gear, just better gear. The idea that any Inquisitor could have trouble getting a plasma pistol, power sword, and refractor field scares me greatly, when I know that the Inquisition plays Deathwatch, and likely sits on several complete armories, and has such "mundane" weapons to spare. They should be able to say "I need these", and get what they want, till they're done, but this isn't Deathwatch, and even a single plasma pistol is somewhat hard to acquire, unless you played DH before, had a plasma pistol by money, and then carried it along after promotion. While I understand the difficulty of giving large hordes of troops better guns, a small group of individuals, tasked with dealing with some really terrible stuff, shouldn't then have to dance to get the gear needed to enable it. Sure, a bit of the point is probably to keep the party on task, increasing their Influence, so that they can get better gear, as they level, so that the group doesn't just get the best weapons, right at start, but it still seems laborious, and for little good reason.

To Zakalwe: Yeah, I understand that it is a different game; it's just a comparison I wanted to make. I don't know where they have "easy" sources of these things that the Inquisitor doesn't, that she has to go scrape with people to procure things, and then only for a while, and while having the ship is a must for the RT, it doesn't feel like "and everything else will be hard to get." Most everything else will stay easy, right from the get go. Once a Dynasty has the same PF as a high-standing Inquisitor, they could acquire anything they might want, possibly on a scale to supply a whole force of men. They will possibly have a much easier time racking up PF, AND it is usually easier to use, and as money, you get to keep what you purchase. The Inquisition sits atop a great heap of money, so this shouldn't happen to Inquisitors, but it seems to, at least IMO.

To Cobramax76: I do rather like the idea of the Inquisitor having a small cadre of his/her own craftspeople, who could take orders to produce various gear, and it could make for the beginning of a campaign, when you can say that several weeks could have been afforded, or occasionally during game, if the time exists. So long as they aren't forging Termie armor, or Exitus weapons, it seems believable. My usual plan, if I ever ran it, was to have the party stop off at a forge world, maybe even the Lathes, and "put in their order", then start the game with the stuff they successfully rolled for.

Adeptus-B: I don't rally like the idea of withholding the rosette, personally. I'm rather willing to put up with some of the BS that being an Inquisitor demands. Anyone who has played them in TT understands that you can't just blow the world up from orbit, since he's down there, leading guardsmen and Grey Knights. I do agree, of course, that Superman does SUCK in every game he's in, mostly because everyone else is several orders of magnitude beneath him, and we don't want him to outshine them (since he's a total putz), and because he has a built-in "God Mode active", that would remove much of the challenge. Inquisitors can feel this way, too, but Rogue Trader has a nice mechanic of "one player is in charge, and the others have to obey both them and the GM", unless you are playing with a higher RT in charge, offscreen. Being an Inquisitor seems fun to me; just not kitting up for the experience. If nothing else, some of their "god-like power" is real, very real, but other bits are just "we'll tell them we might...and see if they go for it", or "well we could nuke the place, but there's the stupid Titan there, or that STC-equipped manufactorum, so we can't just blast it", or "well, we could, but the fleet is busy." Some is just the Guard's problem of being a logistical nightmare.

I guess I'm coming from a less system oriented approach than most gms and players. In Dark Heresy I think what the Inquisitor has available is entirely up to the GM irrespetive of system and is relative and subject to their background story. You'll have an idea of what sort of resources the Inquisitor would be able to draw on, be it a hive gang a lowly inquisitor controls, to an entire 'forbidden' system, a moon of which is actually a high inquisitor's secret fortress-moon complete with an 'off the books' space marine chapter, mind-wiped volitor-conditoned stormtrooper regiment, serious orbital defences and a shipyard capable of producing a cobra class frigate. It's entiely up to you.

As a gm and player I prefer this approach because it's easier. From a basic time management perspective I prefer to minimise preparation, and in-game crunch. I have a very narrative style I guess.

In our current DH game we are up to Rank-6. To save 'table time' for actual gaming, we are pretty much allowed to choose whatever gear we want during down time between missions, with the gm running a veto. It works very well,and the group has beeen remarkably restrained, I think the only thing he said no to was when I asked for a ripper pistol. We are about to start the last of the Haarlock adventures and he has suggested strongly that we need to tool up for it. Bummer huh, shopping time. Anyway, I digress a little, I'll go out with:

"less crunch, more BURN THE HERETIC... ...PURGE THE UNCLEAN!"

RT often suggests that if the player wants to aquire common availability gear than there is no roll. RT also has limits as to how many aquisition rolls a character can make. Inquisitors would probably be similar. also remember that their is nothing stopping the gm from applying modifiers to availability based on population or even type of world. (A Forge world will have better odds of having your plasma pistol then a Feral village!) as a Gm you could also use the scale modifiers from rt (And if one your ascended cell is a Magos who has contact with [or control of] a Lathe or manufactorum the possibilities are endless!)

If you're using Ascension's influence rules, you might want to consider 'This One Thing I Ask of You' on page 15. Using that rule, you can automatically pass any influence test in exchange for lowering your influence score by 1d5. For example, the influence test to requisition the use of an Imperial Navy Vessel of cruiser size (near unique, -50) permanently (-20).

Another way to look at it is profit factor and influence are better at getting different sorts of things. Profit factor is better at getting a bolt pistol as Rogue Traders don't have money they have huge amounts of money and connections some of them built up over many generations. When an Inquisitor uses influence getting the items custom commissioned might take a while but the items are always best quality.

The main strength of influence is that the Inquisitor can turn around to a squadron of Navy Frigates and pull them off whatever mission they are on to launch an attack on some pirate haven he needs to take out easily enough but for a Rogue Trader huge numbers of cash and a silver tongue might not be able to convince them. A rogue trader can never be assured to get any item, mechanically speaking.

There are several items that the Rogue Traders profit factor can't just buy, for example the aid of Adeptus Astrates is much harder for them to acquire than an Inquisitor. The services of the Officio Assasinorum are also extremely difficult for a Rogue Trader to get. Lastly trying to get a few Titans to come help you kill something is specifically noted in Battlefleet Koronus as not something a Rogue Trader can get the aid of no matter how high their profit factor without some great roleplaying and good reasons. I'd lump Eversor assasins and the like in the same category but Space Marines are more doable on a Dynasty/Chapter by Dynasty/Chapter basis, as some have old favours to be called in such as the Lan Dynasty and the Lamenters as talked about in Rites of Battle.

Gaius said:

Oooooh, I love a good narrative take on mechanics. Nicely put Gaius