I use this to a char just with M P icon,he has no I icon,then can I response to discrad my darkstar(PotS) to give him back an I icon?

consider he has no I icon yet?

I icon= -1+1=0

another question:can sunspear tourney ground cancel a passive char ability?

db123456 said:

I would say no. The triggering event for The Scourge is "After a character loses an icon", so you have to choose an icon that the character actually lost.

up

Rad is correct. You cannot Respond to losing an icon you never had in the first place.

As for the Sunspear Tourney Ground question, no. The text is pretty clear that you can only cancel character abilities that are "triggered." The standard definitions and usage in the game draws a very distinct line between "triggered" and "passive" abilities.

IS the Scourge always create 3 response opportunity for players?

No. It only creates as many Resopnse opportunities as the character had icons when The Scourge was triggered. Two icons, two potential triggers.

Think of CS-Arya. If she targets a character with just stealth, she it only loses stealth and she only gains stealth, not stealth AND the Renown the character didn't have to lose in the first place.

can someone response for m icon that a char has a printed m icon and has rusted sword affect by the scourge?

db123456 said:

Look at it another way: If you had an effect that said "this character gets +1 STR for each icon it has," would your character with a printed MIL icon and a Rusted Sword get +1 STR or +2 STR? FFG has consistently held that they would only get +1 STR because when it comes to icons, you either have them, or you don't.

Where you are getting confused on this whole Scourge thing is that you are equating STR and icons. It is true that you run the check for STR and icons the same way - always starting from scratch and totaling all applicable modifiers to get the result just once - but STR can have a wide range of results while icons can only have two ("yes" or "no"). So in order to "lose" an icon in a practical way that can be Responded to, the check for the effective icon needs to go from "yes" to "no."

You have proposed two different situations in this thread. The first is whether applying the "-1 icon" modifier to an icon the character never had counts as losing the icon. In that situation, the check for the effective icon goes from "no" to "no." So you didn't lose anything. Second is whether applying the "-1 icon" modifier" to an icon the character has printed AND an applicable "+1 icon" modifier associated. In that situation, the check for the effective icon goes from "yes" to "yes." So you didn't lose anything.

Essentially, you are trying to apply the definition for "reduce a character's STR" (which equates to "apply a new -X STR modifier") to the definition of "losing an icon." But because STR is "analog" and icons are "digital," the two are not equivalent concepts.

Essentially, Game of Thrones is the most convoluted system of Boolean logic ever.

Circadia said:

After all, it is a "living" card game.

Bwahahahhaha!