This maybe belongs in Deckbuilding...

This got mentioned on 2 Champs and a Chump recently and I'd been running it for a while, so I wonder about the power of plot cycling decks. Like they said on the podcast, I run City plots (Soldiers, Spiders, Sin, Secrets, At the Gates) with Fear of Winter and Minstrel's Muse/Winter Festival. Cycling mechanics are 3x Bran, 3x Citadel Law, 3x Winterfell Rookery, and Archmaester Marwyn. Everyone has seen how much using Maesters Path opens up options and fills in the holes in a deck... combining that with the ability to accelerate the City plots gives you a huge control advantage. I generally get 5 card setups hoping for Bran in setup. At the Gates into FoW is pretty powerful, losing a M challenge and switching to Minstrel's Muse for surprise 4 power in Dominance works well, and I generally go through 11+ plots by the time they're playing the 7th. Luwin and To Be a Wolf help ensure that I'll get the cards I need to keep the combo going, meanwhile WW-duped Ebrose grabs up power and given that I can often kneel 4 characters with a City plot in Round 2 or 3, he generally doesn't have trouble getting through.
Unfortunately I cannot run a reset; I go through plots so fast that I would be killing my own guys when I had board control. I can, however, force my opponent closer to using a reset with Citadel Law; if we get to Round 5 and no reset has come out when I need it, CL my opponent and let him/her decide if they want to play it now or play it next Round as their 7th plot and be resetless for six Rounds. Has anyone else been experimenting with anything like this?

A bit of a digression, but I wanted to make sure I understand fully how the City plots work. If you get to your seventh plot, and it's one of the City plot that looks to your used plot pile for other City plots, does it not find any? Your used plots are already back as your plot deck, right?

God I hope not, otherwise we've been playing wrong for a long time. Core Rulebook entry on your last plot:

"If this was the last card in your plot deck, return all your previously played plots (except the one just revealed) to your plot deck after your revealed plot has taken effect."

Which leads me to believe that your 6 used plots would not become your new plot deck until after the "When revealed" text activates.
Either way, I try to end with FoW or Winter Festival/Minstrel's Muse (I've been switching back and forth between them). Otherwise I couldn't use the effect of At the Gates again since I would already have City plots in my used pile.

Skowza said:

Oh, never mind, I was playing it wrong then. When I played last week, it was the first time I was trying out a Lanni deck with the new cards I'd gotten from the KL reprints; when it came time to play my seventh plot, I had City of Soldiers. I checked the rulebook, but obviously I misread it because I thought it said after you reveal the plot, not after the plot takes effect.

Man, given how poorly that game was going for me then, it would've been nice to kill someone. Must've been up to Str 3 or 4, can't remember how many City plots are in that deck.

Awesome, thanks for sharing Skowza! I've played something similar. I left out City of Secrets and opted for things like RBD, the Tully Search Plot, Siege of RR, or now Search and Detain would be another fun option. Even Outwit with the maester support. I think To Be a Wolf needs a military battle plot to work though, doesn't it?

I think it's a fun concept. Have you considered going the Winter route and adding in the Frostfangs? It seems like you could zip through a deck pretty quickly that way. Though.... maybe that should be tried as some sort of Greyjoy/Stark Alliance.... It's too bad the Rookeries are House Only. Still, Greyjoy's probably gives you more reliability since it relies on your actions rather than your opponent's.

Kennon said:

That is the area I have been experimenting with Bran and plot cycling, in both Greyjoy and Stark. Using Maester's [brass Link] or Night's Watch. The latter an adaptation from Ser Arthur Lannister's creative Lannister Mill deck.

So far, they always ALMOST win. Get to deck the opponent but still lose on that last turn. The latest Stark/Maester version is still untested and has many of the cards Skowza uses except the City plots. Though I will try adding FoW and/or Minstrel's.

It was ruled at the MN regionals that the 7th city plot does "see" the previous 6 plots long enough to trigger the responses. And yes, it makes city plots that much more powerful. I had been playing it incorrectly for years (well, however long city plots have been out!) as well!

clu said:

Was not aware of that and have heard exactly the opposite ruling from one of the LCG designers at FFG. Will have to ask again next time we have game night. It was explained to me that as soon as you reveal your last plot (before any effects go off), that your other six go back to your unused plot deck and so the last City plot has no triggers. If that somehow isn't the case, that adds a decent amount of power to them.

TheLarz said:

Given that (as quoted above) the rulebook states in clear, unambiguous wording 'after your revealed plot has taken effect', I'd say that the person who told you otherwise was having a bad day.

Bronson said:

Lol, yea, forgot that part because I've changed the deck so many times. I did have a M Battle in at one point but I took it out in favor of more "When revealed" plots; the To Be A Wolf is currently sidebarred and was replaced with Paper Shield.
I run City of Secrets to recurse Citadel Law; sometimes I just need the 4 gold since most of the City plots don't provide much, but much of the time my discard pile only consists of three or four cards and getting those CLs back is pretty important. I was also running Marched to the Wall at one point so I knew there would be stuff in my discard pile. The 7th plot has actually changed a number of times, I can't find anything I'm happy with. Most of the time I use Winter Festival since I figure I get at least 2-4 free power, and its always safe to trigger it with Marwyn.

Consider adding Den of the Wolf to your cycling decks and activating it during your Minstrel's Muse turn to repeat the Dominance Phase. 8power ftw.

Not enough influence built into the deck.