Hello there

first sorry for my english as it's not my home language

Quick question i had during the reading of the Core rulebook : how do the battle brother can 'justify' or 'explain' their mission/purposes/chapter if the Deathwatch is such a secret organization ?

They have those black armors, with Inquisition signs on it, and to an experienced officer of the Imperial Guard for example, even if he doesnt know all the Astartes Chapter by heart, he can recognize soemthing 'unusual'.

I know that the Astartes and more than that the Deathwatch doesnt explain the how and why to the puny mortals, they must sometimes do so and i wanted to have your feedbacks and solutions for this situation.

Thanx and happy holidays !!

Golgorosh

Golgorosh said:

Nothing to justify, really. I'm a warrior demigod, you're just cannon fodder, I bear the sigil of the Holy Ordos, you don't. I've been taught not to tell, you've been taught not to ask. So just shut up and do what you're told.

Golgorosh said:

I don't understand your question, why you need to explain your mission and to who?

an example...

during a planet infestation of tyrannid on the planet there are: pdf force and ultramarine force.

soon came an inquisitor with a kill team.

the pubblic purpose was to help....

(and all the people know that they are deathwatch kill team)

Morangias said:

yeah....but you are an Astartes and you MUST defend that "cannon fodder"......right?

stand fast and don't forget your oath!!!

I've often wondered the same thing but I think ultimately your average imperial citizen doesn't know much of anything about different space marine chapters except maybe one local to their system, so most of them won't look past the Space Marine to notice the paint job. Those who have a chance to really identify that something is odd about those particular space marines likely might be aware of the gorups existance. Your average space marine sgt and up is likely aware of at least the existance of the deathwatch and a general knowledge that their out there fighting the good fight and take some of the best of the best of the space marines, to be selected is a great honor.

Gantz the slaughterer said:

Not always.

Your duty may require the cannon fodder to hold as long as they can, possibly resulting in their death, while you get the job done. It could even mean that you need to sacrifice them to keep the Inquisitions secrets.

Recognition of individual chapters of marines is something 99% of imperial citizens won't know. They will know they are Astartes, but beyond that they generally won't know any specifics. Those that do know anything about Astartes will only know the major players from statuary and other religious art. The very few who know specifics about Astartes would understand that if one shows up wearing the seal of the Inquisition, really bad things are happening and their life expectancy has just gotten a lot shorter.

ItsUncertainWho said:

Perhaps they have heard about Blood Angels or Ultramarines - or the Space Wolves, the common man's champion. Anyway, if they live near a Chapter Homeworld, chances are they will recognize that chapter. Also let's not forget that the Inquisition itself is a quasi-mythical boogie man organization - until you are unfortunate to run into it.

However there is bound to be higher ranking mortal personnel who know Astartes but who can't make heads nor tails out of the Deathwatch. They'll recognize probably the sign of the =][= and they might recognize that there are different known chapter symbols on the one pauldron. Will they inquire about it? Chances are, they won't. Now if they do, things could get... interesting.

Alex

Gantz the slaughterer said:

I would imagine that only other Space Marines and the Inquisition would really know what the Deathwatch are on the field of battle. I can see some Imperial Guard having many different theories as to what they are, from just another Space Marine Chapter, to a Chapter of Inquisitors (which isn't too far off) due to their heraldry. Would they strait up ask a Space Marine what the Deathwatch Chapter is all about? Very seriously doubtful, they're too busy trying to give as much pertinent information as possible, and not seem like a weak kneed little girl in front of what is essentially to him a demi-god. Now, I can see that a General of a war effort might understand that the Space Marines in black armor with the symbol of the Inquisition on it, are a Militant Chapter in the Inquisition. If he was heavily connected, he might even know that there are different Ordos in the Inquisition, and that the Deathwatch is a part of the Ordos Xenos. Beyond that, he's not going to really know the intricacies of the Deathwatch, or Inquisition, those kinds of things are on a need to know basis and it's really not all that pertinent to a lot of situations.

I see it the same way AK, Uncertain, and Kagra do- most citizens will see that you're an Astartes, then recognize that Inquisitorial seal. The combination of the two is going to make most people try to find something better to do with their time and not get involved.

Local commanders that the DW/PCs come into contact with will have varying degrees of knowledge about Astartes and the Inquisition, but even those that have (somewhat) detailed knowledge or experience will know very well that getting in the way of or trying to dig up dirt on them is just not worth the time or trouble.

An example of this semi-knowledge is actually in second adventure of "The Emperor Protects"

***Minor Spoiler***

The PCs go to talk to a base commander (or similar) and he hands over some info to them, but questions the group as to why they're coming around *again* because he already gave all the information to their friends- other astartes had been by ahead of the player group. The Base commander doesn't know the difference between the two groups, he just knows they're astartes, and assumes they all work together.

***End Minor Spoiler***

IMO when 99.9% of good Throne-fearing citizens see the ][ of the Inquisition, they just pray it isn't there for them.

Some commanders would know particularly at higher ranks. Their troops would not and probably would be too scared to ask. Curiosity gets you killed in the Imperium...or worse.

It's not even so much that you shouldn't tell that you're DW. The person you're talking to will either already know or have no reason to ever know and every reason to forget you immediately and/or follow evey command you give immediately. Even a "normal" Astartes is obeyed and feared by any good IG grunt.

If a DW mission becomes public this is usually because the Kill-Team comes to the rescue and the average imperial citizen (incl. imperial guards) is lucky he gets help by the legendary astartes and will not ask any questions and the guys on the receiving end of a DW bolter won't have time to ask anyway.

Problems can arise with greater authorities who will have Lore:Common (Adeptus Astartes) and Lore:Forbidden (Inquisition) and might fear their position is in jeopardy on behalf of some higher authority, but these people will always ask questions and it's best to ignore them (this is not for your eyes, you do your duty we do ours etc.) unless the Kill-Team wants some information from them too because it is very difficult to tell if someone is withholding some important facts but it's easy to notice that someone won't assist you on your mission. Maybe this is a job for an Inquisitor if he accompanies your team.

Golgorosh said:

while i dont think 99% dont know which chapter is which most humans just dont ask, and you dont need to tell. your the good guys and thats really all that matters is when hell comes down to visit the astartes lift their shields to stand in the way.

You could, if you wanted, have a situation where given that Marines are effectively angels or the sons of god, they occupy a position similar to that of sporting heros in todays society.

So Marines are some combination of the Red Baron/Wayne Rooney/Jesus with all the interest among the commonfolk that that represents. Embedded Rememberancers report on the doings of Space Marines, propaganda holos feature Marines heavily, the religious education taught in both regular and sunday school talks often of Marines (imagine, if you will, a massive hall filled with endless rows of students. A flickering projector flashes images of chapter symbols on to a screen. The children are expected to identify their chapter and motto. Those who fail the test are caned and set for reeducation) etc.

So the different chapters can have fan clubs, children have posters of famous Marines on their walls and most NPCs have at least as much knowledge of the doings of Marines as the players themselves.

And naturally many people of the forty first millenium enjoy collecting and painting miniature figurines of Space Marines, and play out their battles on the tabletop.

Perhaps the eclesiarchy have given exclusive rights to use Marine likenesses for gaming to an enormous, evil, Imperium spanning megacorperation which enforces their monopoly with vicious brutality.

I wonder what it could be called...

Thank you everyone for your answers

Take care !!

Another interesting thing is that the inquisition is also a secret organization, that somehow expects to command instant obedience from the far reaching military. civilian. and religious sectors of the government complex on strength of office alone more often then not. I'm not sure how compatable those two aims are.

lurkeroutthere said:

There's a big difference between secret, and secretive.

A secret organisation is one that you don't want people to know anything about. A secretive organisation may be known of, but nothing of the truth beyond the vaguest and most terrible rumours is known beyond the simple fact of that organisation's existence.

Assume that the Inquisition as a whole is the latter, but contains many examples of the former.

**** right, the Inquisition wants the citizens to assume that it exists - or might exist. Fear and ignorance, ignorance and fear. The more half-truths the better.

Alex

I always take the approach that peopel know the Inquisition exists but not all of what makes it up or what it does in detail. After all, people know about the Black Ships and the collection of psykers and dread it of course.