Anyone have any suggestions on how to speed up the turn for spellcasters? Because of twice the dice rolls, it just takes longer.

jh

I think it's important to note, that while wizards can cast once per turn, at full power, this is a risky thing to do, and not advised.

The normal way to cast is to either Channel Power in a turn, or Cast (if you have enough power).

Quick-Casting is a certain way to becoming a mutant.

I explained this to my wizard player, and while he was not happy about it, I think he's starting to really appreciate how being a wizard is not about casting fireballs every turn.

Spivo said:

I couldn't agree more. Wizards have a lot of tools at their disposal, but they pay for that with either miscasts/corruption or the time it takes to use those tools properly. One way or another there is a price.

Our trouble is with a priest. He's rank 2 now and has a lot of action powers as well. There's no real inherent disadvantage to quickcasting (purple die).

Have them roll before there tern i have a wizard in my grp and as long as you have enuf dice it works well

Hey but priest CAN'T quickcast ! They don't even just cast. They bless, then they fullfill their praying of favour slowly and without any danger of miscast.

I think you missed something important here. That difference is funny to play and feel nice Ingame.

willmanx said:

well tecnicly priest can quickcast its just called" urgent need" the macanic is the same just in reverse order

And hence the problem. Priests channel AFTER they cast their spells.

Would it be stupidly broken if we just had them channel when it wasn't their turn to save time?]

jh

Yeah, here's the problem. Let's say I cast "Twin-Tailed Comet," which requires more favor than I have at the start of the round. I throw a boatload of dice to invoke the prayer... and I have to take note of all the damage/effects for when the prayer goes into effect. Then I grab up all the dice again to quick-cast, er, make an "In Dire Need" piety check to see if the prayer is immediately answered. A bit convoluted, to be sure.

Emirikol said:

Yeah, that's not a bad idea but that would mean channeling *before* praying/casting. Don't know how that would affect things. I suppose if the prayer is successfully invoked then I already know if the favor is there or not. If the prayer is unsuccessful I can simply cancel the In Dire Need/piety check and lose one favor.

I haven't tested this out at all, and have not played a mage, but what if you somehow made a quick cast 1 dice pool roll, add 1 purple die, and an extra black die for every point of power needed.

Romus said:

That would not work and be a very hard roll, plus part of the danger if being a wizard is the chance to gather to much power and get insanitys or worse

k7e9 said:

First off, thanks for the response!

Not a bad idea but your definition, "only be used if it is urgent and important" seems vague. Last session my adventure group ran into a large number of unknown foe firing arrows at us. Turns out they were dark elves led by a dark elf sorceress. Seemed important to get Sigmar's Strength cast ASAP as well as Twin-Tailed Comet at the sorceress. For the entire combat I was attempting In Dire Need. Ended up the enemy's numbers were overwhelming, my character's wound threshold was reduced to zero, and we fled the combat--escaping only because an NPC sacrificed himself to ensure our getaway.

I guess my question is: would you penalize for 'overuse' of "In Dire Need" during combat situations?

It really shouldn't take very long for the Priest player to roll the Curry Favor roll. They should already know and be able to make the dice pool off the top of their head, barring any additional dice the GM wants to apply. Its a straight up test, not dependent on an NPC or anything.

By the way, if you read the rules, there *is* an inherent 'danger' for quickcasting and failing for priests. It just isn't as cut and dry as with Wizards. If a priest "miscasts" or gets chaos stars when quickcasting, then they have somehow offended their deity. The GM becomes the arbiter of what this means. It could range from requiring additional favor for blessings for a time, preventing the use of being able to curry favor to 'quick-cast', not being able to use that particular blessing for a time, and up to and including not being able to cast any blessings at all for a period of time. Some sort of penance would typically be required for the priest PC.

Gods can be fickle. The matter is not really whether the PC thinks it is a situation of "dire need", but whether their deity agrees it is a "dire need" and the requested blessing is an appropriate favor.

In the example of the dark elves ... perhaps Sigmar finally had enough of the priest trying to rely on divine aid as a crutch, and wanted the priest to able to stand using their own abilities. Gods don't want to be taken for granted, and so occasionally might have to show their priests that their blessings aren't guaranteed, or wanted the priest to be tested.

In many ways, priests can be more hampered/constrained than wizards. Wizards just need to manage the Winds of Magic. Priests need to manage their relationship with their gods. The Winds of Magic aren't sentient, just chaotic. Gods, on the other hand, can be affronted, pissed off, get bored, decide what is being asked for isn't what is needed, etc. The blessing comes from the God, who ultimately has control over what happens. The priest PC is just asking the god for a particular blessing. There is no actual guarantee that the god will always agree or provide the requested blessing. The god might very well have a different idea, and provide a different blessing (or no blessing), if they so desire.

Of course, this all is a bit "outside" of the stated rules, which as I recall just say something simple about priests and 'miscasting' affecting their relationship with their deity. But, IMO, is a logical (and fun) extension of the idea.

>GM arbitrating effects of chaos stars

Although this is fine. After the 18th round of combat, I think I'd rather just have a chart i can roll for like for Wizards. {scribbing in house rulebook ;}

I think the design of "in dire need" is not flawed for theme. Afterall, clerics should ask first and then receive, but its a much less efficient mechanic than the wizards ability in real game play. I think in my house rules I'll work something out for quickcasting for clerics a little more concrete and just have them curry favor first. If it keeps the game moving faster, i'll take that over a loss of the "hoping for blessings" theme.

I think the Tome of Salvation 2e had some ideas on this matter. I'll have to work something in. Thoughts on solutions are always appreciated.

jh

dvang said:

Well, you're right but my problem is remembering all the *potential* effects of my invocation die roll before taking up the dice and re-rolling for piety. That and my overall noob-iness.

Eradico Pravus said:

The answer is: It depends. If the enemy have overwhelming numbers I'd say that you are in "Dire need" the whole combat. And yes, it is vague and applied on a case-to-case basis, but that's kind of the point. It all depends on the surrounding circumstances. In a regular combat you could use the dire need (as a shallayan for example) when someone in the party is in dire need of healing for example, but not every single turn. It is up to the GM to rule it on a case-to-case basis.

Hmmm, I suppose you could get rid of the channeling and favour currying mechanic altogether. Thanks Jay, now I want a curry, jerk.)

This you try and bring it back a little further towards the 2nd ed., so if you spend your manouvre channeling you make the roll easier later on the action.

By contrast, the rank of the spell adds more challange dice to the action, unless channeling is done.

Or something like that. I'll put something solid together and slap it in house rules. Because I'm a legend like that.

As a house rule, you could get rid of Curry Favor. Then, as an option:

- Allow the priest to add misfortune dice to their pool for favor (1 for 1) or a Challenge die for favor (1 for 3)

It makes casting the blessing less likely to succeed, but is more "stable" and more concrete amount of favor, and the priest can decide how much to "push their luck" based on the amount of favor they need and how long they want to wait to get the blessing to go into effect.

- Alternately, once a blessing is successfully invoked, allow a priest to suffer stress or fatigue to add favor (1 for 1?)

Just some quick options that should work to make it simpler, without breaking the game.

I think it really just comes down to practice for the priest PC player, though. They might want to practice invoking their various blessings a few times, as well as currying favor too. Really repetition helps making and interpreting the dice pools *much* easier and faster.

dvang said:

Good advice and I'll try it. Usually I try to get/stay familiar with my action cards and abilities but since we only play twice a month I tend to forget. Arg!

There is a link to an online dice roller in my signature.

If you don't normally have access to the game's dice, but want to practice making the appropriate dice pools, you can use it to help if you need to.

dvang said:

Hey, thanks!!