So, after an hiatius from roleplaying in general and WFRP in particular, Lure of Power has got me thinking about getting the band back together again. But I thought I'd get input on the one element that just never gelled for me and the group when I ran previously... rally steps.

They never felt natural and right while playing. I think my big question is in the written adventures there would be rally steps called for while characters were still engaged with enemies and my players balked at the logic of that. Well, so did I, largely.

So, what's the conventional wisdom on Rally Steps? How have you used them or ignored them? What am I doing wrong, and how can I do it right?

In my game I only have 2house rules 1. No rally steps i just don't care for it at all

2. no min. damage The 1 dmg rule dos not work for me, If a 5 year old hits me wile waring full plate he is NOT going to do any dmg to me

I use them of sorts usually to replace the end of encounter rule (as I always interpret encounters as fights). I tend to use them to manage stress/fatigue levels, I like to keep the stress heavy players high on stress but with enough of a leeway that it doesn't feel unfair. I use rally steps at the end of big fights within a scene and don't use the end of encounter rule where you loose 3 stress and fatigue or whatever it is. This way I can still give players a break when managing stress and fatigue without making them feel like they got the day off. I'll also use them whenever I believe they fit the scene, maybe before a big fight. They make good excuses to heal if you are pressing your party for time and they are in a hurry

I think they are an effective mechanic but if you leave it as a mechanic and not weave it into the story it's a real dud. Roleplay and story wise it makes sense as long as it fits between within the scene. If fighting a wave of baddies and one wave is dead and the next one won't be due in 2 minutes you could rp a section where everyone takes a few breaths and see's to their wounds in a quick order (such as a scene where someone tears cloth of their shirt and ties it on in a crude fashion *healing check* that only takes thirty seconds or so in most movies (I know movies aren't realistic but neither is warhammer). Another example is a scene when a fighter gets down on his haunches takes a few deep breaths gets up and puts his helmet back on before the next attack (recovers fatigue) or a wizard pauses and focus concentrates intently to clear his thoughts (recovers stress)

I think the trick to using them is to avoid the pokemon mechanic which is a pet hate of mine on these types games. Don't view it as a mechanic when in game,

Heinz uses rally step, recovers 1 fatigue, 1 stress and 3 wounds. It's super effective!

I stop paying attention when players divulge the tired formula:

Ability - condition - effect - result

without embelishment extended exposure to this gameplay boors me to tears. Simple rp description from the player makes these things mildly interesting and keeps me entertained such as "alright I'll see to my arm" *heal check* or "I'll just a moment to gather my thoughts *recover 1 stress* encourages me to use these more often.

In conclusion. Yes I use them and yes I think they are good.

In some situations, like traveling and fighting through a swamp, Fatigue can stack up fast. Rally steps are needed to make sure it doesn't get out of hand. Especially at times you go directly from one fight into another, you will probably need a rally step or the character will not be able to survive.

So if you do away with Rally Steps, you will probably want to reduce the amount of stress and fatigue being put out.

angrydragon said:

angrydragon said:

I mainly view traditional wound damage as a vulnerability threshold similar to wounds in 2nd edition. IMO These are the amounts of small incidents (which sometimes may not even touch you) which can happen to you before something really bad happens (critical wound). In my personal games we say things like "the arrow flies right past your head" if the attack hits but dos not inflict a critical wound or cause a knockout.

Yes a five year old won't do damage to someone in plate mail but why set up that scenario? Unless the GM wants the child to perform a specific purpose by attacking a knight the GM would just run the encounter in story mode. Maybe the one wound dealt to the player would be designed to stimulate a response. Take for example in my campaign when 8 year old Fritz attacked attacked Anierra's shins and dealt a mighty 2 damage. I wanted Aido to think differently in how to deal with the crazy kid, before the scene was ran in story mode and Aido was trying to talk that kid down, the kid had a go at the elf and Aido talked Anierra's response. The second time I had Fritz attack Anierra in encounter mode and **** got serious. Now Aido knew this kid meant business and that he had to find a non lethal way of sorting it out while in encounter mode rules.

Q. What if Fritz killed Anierra by repeated damage 1 attacks.

A. It never would have happened.

Why? Because it was a non competitive scene where the much lower statistic was doomed to fail.

Perhaps if the kid managed to whittle down Anierra I would have simply said Anierra could not be knocked out by him however if those "wounds" weren't recovered the next sword swung at the elf's head would have been an instant knock out. Not because Anierra is so heavily wounded from sore shins but because the elf's luck had ran out, Anierra underestimated xyz bandit attack and paid the price.

If taken literally it is a silly rule but from a high level it makes sense. It also keeps the game moving as a t5 chaos marauder in full plate mail would be close to impossible for a group of st3 dagger, handweapon PC with a melee strike basic action card. Their only chance would be to pray for Sigmar comets or boon rolls. That may appeal to some but I believe that the PC characters should always have a chance, no matter how slim, to prove they are a cut above the norm and be heroes if only for one day.

And vice versa! The snotling who takes down the mighty longbeard after said dwarf had carved through six dozen would be regarded as mighty indeed amongst his peers! Not everyone can fight forever, even PCs.

This you have to adapt for your taste.

I like Warhammer to be a hard place where PC are just normal people (just a bit above the mass ) who have taken the determination to move away from their previous everyday live. So, just to cite the previous example, in my games if my newly created PC's will face a Chaos Warrior St6 To6 clad in Chaos Armour Soak 5, they will be sadly obliterated.

Therefore, I have kept the Rally step mainly because it offers the oportunity to add some role play drama to combats. Nonetheless, I have strongly limited them. Mainly, in the middle of a combat encounter, you can have a second to catch your breath and may be, if I see it fitted, a PC can recover 1 fatigue and 1 stress, but there is no way you will recover, all of a sudden in the time interval of a few seconds, a single wound by bandaging your wounds. Try for example to cut your arm with a knife and then bandage it with a cloth, I don't see how your condition is going to improve in the following seonds /minutes by doing so.

By the way! that was ironic, don't do it!

So adapt Rally step to your game style, house rule it, test it with your players and at the end if you don't like it, throw it away.

I use the Rally Step all the time. It's one of my favourite mechanics in the game, truth told. Using the Rally Step properly is all about pacing. Your guys are in the middle of a huge fight and just beat back the first wave of fighters, they get a rally step. They've just taken a volley of arrows and ran behind some cover, that's a rally step. I believe the book calls it a pause in the action. I see it as a moment suspended in the middle of a fight, a moment where the characters can assess their situation, lick their wounds, and crack their neck as they stare down the next opponent. More importantly, a rally step is a way for the players to take a moment and see where they are in the fight and come up with some new tactics.

If you've watched an action movie in, say, the last fifteen years, you'll have seen a rally step. Especially if you watch movies made by guys like John Wu, Johnny To, or Park Chan Wook. Here's a link to a great knife fight scene from the fantastic "Man From Nowhere". Give that a watch. At about the three minute mark you'll see a Rally Step. The good guy (the dude in black) paces the room for a moment, checking himself and his opponent. The bad guy (in red) gets into some deep smack talk and mentally prepares for the next step in the fight.

Or how about the gun fight at the end of

Ultimately, Rally Steps are all in the execution. They are only as compelling as you're willing to make them. If you've got great knockdown, drag-out fights, then those Rally Steps will be a fantastic moment for the characters to catch their breaths while the players do the same. And honestly, you should be making room for them in your fights. WFRP has brutal combat as is, and the Rally Step rules are a part of the game specifically because of that. It exists to make the fights powerful and brutal, everything that we as Warhammer fans want out of our game, while also making them into battles that won't chew up characters like a meat grinder.

Oh, and since this was thrown in here too,

angrydragon said:

Why not? Taking this away only means that you're creating zero-sum rolls, which are boring. Check out this article by Ryan Macklin on zero-sum rolls and why thy don't work in roleplay.

Also, it's Warhammer! Realism shouldn't really be entering into the situation. Who cares about what a five year-old in our world could do to a dude in plate. Think about the world that the game is in, it's style. It's a brutal place where even the smallest of things can kill you. It's also a place where one man that fights with everything he has can, ultimately, win the fight. It's a world of epic, sweeping battle, and the small rising to the top. It's a world where a five year-old could totally kill a guy in full plate, let alone do one point of regular damage.

Dude, it's totally your game, and if you and your friends are having fun then you should totally just dismiss me as a kookie internet loon. I'm just saying, please consider keeping the rule around. I think it'll make

MPOSullivan said:

I agree the rule is there for a reason, i just think if you invest xp and gold on a hi tuff. and good armour you should get the benafits from them..IN my game as well i think there should be baddes you HAVE to run from your just to week to hert a dragon or some such i think it make the game more brutle