Just fyi: forum.rpg.net/showthread.php

not that I think this poll is a good representative, but for all those who want a possible 4ed to be like a new 2ed... why don't you keep playing 2ed then? it's still out there.

most of the haters never gave 3ed a fair chance, the net is full of half-wise prejeduces and lies. in my personal opinion those people can't accept change and want the same kind of game over and over again. 3ed took a different approach, some people find it fresh, they like it.

People complaining about the lack of fluff of 3ed is another thing I don't get. The fluff that was written for 2ed is great and has not lost any significance at all. why should ffg publish all the stuff all over again? "with 3ed Warhammer has lost some of its dark appeal", that's another of those preconceptions. WH is as gritty as the GM wants it to be.

One thing I absolutely love about 3ed edition is its modular aspect. with simple houserules it can everything you want it to be.

I don't get behind this poll. I may be overreacting here. but the way I see it some people just want to trample on a beatiful flower just because it blooms blue instead of red.

Treehorn said:

bit early in the lifecycle to be crying out for a new edition isn't it?

New "second edtion" has been whined since the WFPR3 was published. I really hope they do not do fourth edition any time soon.

If somebody is searching for a "better percentile warhammer" they should wait for Corehammer to be released. As I understand it the publishing date is not too far of. If you'r unfamiliar with Corehammer go HERE .

doc_cthulhu said:

Interesting. This is my first time hearing about Corehammer. I'll admit that I was slightly disheartened to learn that his objective is to divorce the system from the Warhammer setting (the real reason I play WFRP) but I'll have to keep my eye on this just to see how it comes along. Thanks!

As someone who is new to WFRP, and our groups GM, I have to say that the books could use more world fluff.

Even the books that are "devoted" to fluff like the Book of Grudges is only really giving a brief summary. While the summaries are useful on the surface, it makes it hard to "get into " the nitty-gritty the setting. I know I can just make up stuff to fill in the holes of whatever I am working with but then that just makes it less Warhammer, if that makes any sense.

So while I like the system (for the most part) and certainly don't want a new edition, I'm finding the setting as described in the books as just a bit too vague.

Huh... believe me you're wrong when I bought WFRP 3ed I was like "Boom new ideas, a fresh look, new challenges, YEAH', But when i started unboxing it and I saw the crads ect. i was like hhmmm... probably some creativity helper for new GM's, eventally i saw the little 50 paged soft cover books with all rueles strictly explained leaving no place for an own GM style, the so called careers, ability to play as a frekin high elf and map if I recall correctly not even covering the Empire... I was sad hell I nearly CRIED! Just because it wasn't cheap i looked trough the combat rules and I was utterly terrified MONSTER CARDS IT'S HERESY, I want my heroes fight a horde made entirerly of beast men, but WAIT I CAN'T THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH FREKIN CARDS.

And I don't wait for the 4th edition as i am afraid FFG will screw it too, I stick with 2nd

It's not my intention to get personal, Dominko, but ...

Leaving no place for your own GM style? That's one of the most unfair judgements I came across regarding 3ed. The GM stuff says multiple times that GMs should feel free to adjust the rules as they see fit for their games and groups and also gives tons of advise how to do so.

While I agree on the fact that 3ed doesn't cover the whole Empire and I also think that two elf races weren't needed I can't even get behind what you say about your "monster cards heresy". You can have as many beastmen as you like, even with the small bestiary in the core-set books.

This is one of those posts that drive me into the fanboy corner. People judging and condemning a system having obviously no clue what they are talking about. Frankly, I think you put as much effort into reading the rules as you did when you wrote that post.

The only way that a 4th edition would be coming out soon, would be if GW took the franchise back in house. FFG are not likely to produce a 4th edition for a long time, unless they feel 3rd edition is a bust and not worth backing any longer. At that point GW might have to get involved again, if only to pass the license on to somebody like Green Ronin. Otherwise this is whole thread is just idle speculation and wishful thinking. Unless FFG give up on 3rd edition or GW want to take it over again, 3rd edition will be what we will have for at least the next five years I would guess.

Huh...

Look the fact they say you should have your own style means nothing to me as they give a strict rules, a expirieced GM know they should screw rules but new ones will make the game plainly boring.

Well with the heresy part i meant giving CARDS in a FANTASY ROLEPLAY is just against 'the rules', a fantasy roleplay is meant to be well fantasy, you should have your own vieuw on how things would look like and these slow down creativity by giving you it already finished. I don't see how you can have as many beastmen as you like please explain it to me.

And yes i read all the rules althoug i admit it was like a half year ago.

I like 3E; I actually started GMing with 3E after having played D&D 3.5, Pathfinder ect. and actually liked how flexible the system is. This game introduced me to the Warhammer setting and has done a good job with it. Admittedly the "fluff" is not as strong as it could be in 3E but it is abundant for the setting in various books outside of 3E in fantasy books such as Gotrek, games both board and PC, and great places like http://www.liberfanatica.net/. Any GM worth their salt would and should look around for inspiration/fluff, so I can forgive them that.

The Cards provide an easy way to see things without having to remember that one rule that the book says is on page 38 but is actually in subsection 38 on page 223 under a reference unlike some other RPGs. Also like it or not when 4e D&D (which I am not a fan of, different discussion) started doing card actions as an option you know enough people liked it for them to print it. Also if you want more monsters just use the one card take a piece of paper and track that horde down using the creature card as the base stat, or use the Creature Guide they put out. Not having enough cards is not an excuse when you have paper and a pen.

The rules actually do allow for a TON of GM creativity if you want it, just look at the black/white dice. Do you want something a tad more difficult/easy? No problem just add a black/white die and you don't have to keep track of +/- and whether or not they stack with each other. All the little bits and pieces admittedly require a great deal of table space but they allow you to at a glance see everyone's status quickly.

TL;DR: It is far too early to do 4e. I approve of 3e. Here is to a long life of a great edition! -Cheers!

Dominko said:

I don't get how you can't have enough beastmen. Maybe you are remembering the rules wrong, but creatures aren't limited by cards.

Do you mean standups?

Slysher said:

Very much agreed. Setup takes a bit, and it takes a couple sessions to get the system under the belt, but overall, the bits actually smooth things out a bit, and I find them very evocative.

Doc, the Weasel said:

Most definitely you are not limited to having 1 beastman per card. You definitely misread or misinterpreted the rules, which explains much of your post. I can see why some people may not like 3E, but not one of the accusations you leveled against it is even remotely true.

I know it's too much to ask that people give something a fair shake before rendering final judgements.

Dominko said:

Why would new or adjusted rules make the game boring when you and your group like them better than the original ones? And "they" don't give you strict rules. They show alternatives. Seriously, if you feel too unexperienced to make houserules right from the start, play with the given rules for a while and then make your adjustments as you and your group see fit. Leave out some recharge rules, neglect party sheets, etc, whatever. The rules are pretty modular as long as you don't mess with the dice system.

Dominko said:

What is against what rules? I don't get it. Are you criticizing that FFG has cards with a picture of monsters in the game that give you an idea about what monsters look like? The 2nd edition has the Old World Bestiary with lots of pictures as well. What is the difference between having the looks on a card or in a book !? Or are cards in general "against the rules" in any Fantasy Roleplay, in which case I feel you need to broaden your horizon a bit.

Dominko said:

You have the stats and abilities in the Tome of Adventure. All you have to do is make up any number of beastmen you wish your group to encounter. When you are talking about standups you are right, but in other RPGs you don't even have them at all and you can hardly blame a publisher for not putting about 50 standups per monstertype in the box. And since you don't like stuff giving away the looks of monsters anyway I don't know what the problem is.

Darn! I need an edit button! Sorry for quoting twice.

Edit: Found it. Argh! Is there no delete button?

Dominko said:

All of these "cards" aren't anything but playaids. 3e is just like any other RPG, it just has lots of playaids from the get go. Comparing it to D&D you 1) Have special dice, 2) Have 3 core books - DM/GM, Player's, Monster/Creature. 3e just has, included, lots of playaids.

D&D fans would rejoice if you took all of the classes and put them on cool quick-reference cards, had smaller cards of all of the special abilities of said classes so you don't have to thumb through a book, tokens for tracking hit point damage, etc. It's the same **** thing, but for whatever reason those that haven't actually read the rules don't get this.

If the 3 hardback books came out THEN special boxes of playaids were later released then perhaps there would be less confusion and resentment?

My only resentment is that they put out the guides (traditional design) and then suddenly forgot how to do that since. They went right back to their bad old habits right after that, leaving the product release messy again. It's not a huge deal, but I'm hearing masses of people in game stores, at conventions, and online continue to repeat the same negative mantra about it's product design. The game's fine. The product design seems to be what's undesirable. People are clamoring for a traditional design, yet they cater to a boardgame approach. This boardgame approach has been attempted before (1980's chits n' cards), but somehow that didn't sink in and they managed not only to alienate 64.72% the 2e players, but new gamers as well just from product design alone. Would it really be that hard to include GM's Guide-style charts with each product? IT would be like 5 pages TOTAL in the product!

Just my opinion though.

Bloody Sun Boy said:

Interesting. This is my first time hearing about Corehammer. I'll admit that I was slightly disheartened to learn that his objective is to divorce the system from the Warhammer setting (the real reason I play WFRP) but I'll have to keep my eye on this just to see how it comes along. Thanks!

Nice to see another mention of CORE RPG!

As to not cause any trademark or intellectual property issues, the new system is inspired by everybody's favorite dark and gritty RPG system. However, I should mention that it's being built with adaptability in mind, so I can assure you that it would easily be compatible with whichever campaign world you run, whether it's an official one or homebrewed.

I definitely welcome any opinions or feedback regarding the product. Feel free to check out the discussions over at Strike 2 Stun , or at RPG.net regarding CORE RPG. Once it's closer to being complete, I will have the website up and rearing as well.

Cheers,

Daniel

I think the biggest drawback of 3rd edition is the cards it self. The approach is nice but it is difficult to manage. If you have a large group of players, for example >5, combat encounters start to become a difficult thing to manage. You will need a lot of space for the cards. Of course, you can stick to the core rules to keep the number of cards down and give only one card of a given type to the whole group of enemies. That, sorry to say, is the most ridiculous thing ever! There is no possible justification for that. 1 Orc and he has the card Crush'em good, 8 orcs and they have to share one single Crush'em good? Where is the sense on that?

Me and my players (8 players) have developed a software to manage encounters. We have scanned all the cards in the game and the software generates a tab for each monster and npc party sheet. On each monster tab you have displayed the creature card, his action cards, counters for the wounds, stress, fatigue, recharging action counters etc... On the monster tab I can also load card for effects, diseases, critical wounds...

I can load default creatures with a given set of actions or personalize them at my on taste, give them weapons and armors...

I have to say that It was quite some work, but it pays off sooooooooo much!! The result is that I don't need space anymore, everything sits in my laptop or tablet behind my GM screen

So, I guess I would like something like this from FFG, either for this edition or for an upcomming one. A software for the GM to manage encounters without the physical components.

Emirikol said:

I can't see any board.

To me is good, this is the most funny WHFR that I've ever played.

The thing with cards and such...what happens with 2 new races that are not listed on any previously printed career card?

And so on.

Each new product should contain the WFRP lite type tables found in the guides.

Emirikol said:

They didn't forget it. They explicitly said that they never intended for traditional book format to be a standard for WFRP3. As a concession to fans who were asking for such, though, FFG managed to somehow squeeze extra time into their busy WFRP3 schedule and produce the existing Guides containing the Basic stuff. As they did this, they explicitly stated that the Guides were not the norm, would not be done again, and that new releases would follow the original format. They made everything very clear, that the Guides were a "one-off" for people who wanted to get started with WFRP without all the trappings (they called it WFRP "lite").

The thing with cards and such...what happens with 2 new races that are not listed on any previously printed career card?

I would expect that FFG knows what they are doing with this. There are careers that say "any", for example. Perhaps each new race will have a restriction that relies on career traits, rather than Race. Like, "any career that lists Human and Urban". Then, too, perhaps each race comes with its own new set of career cards that it can take. Etc.

dvang said:

They already did something like that with the "Noble" trait in Lure of Power. So I don't see any reason why there should be a problem and totally agree with your post.

I am very content with how things are at the moment. I like action cards and I like the boxes with all the components. The components and cards are two of the main reasons why I love this game.

I hope that they won't try do a 4th version of the game anytime soon. I really want them to go on first and release a bunch of new supplements, adventure moduls and campaigns. And after a while I would be glad if they did something like a rules companion where they collect all the rules from the supplements for easier reference. But not yet. Only after Heroes Call, the Elf box and one or two more shipments of WFRPG3rd fun.

My WFRP 3E campaign gave me mixed feelings.

I Have run both 2E and 3E campaigns (and many moons ago even run 1E) in addition to Dark Heresy and other GW/FFG games (currently doeing Black Crusade).

Fluff and setting are not an issue as such (but more on this later...) as I have so much matrial at hand already.

I enjoyed the dice and extra efects and feeling the comets and chaos stars etc. gave. I also enjoyed having the details on the cards etc. for the players to read and understand rather than rule book flipping. I liked the more narrative than grid based combat. I also liked many of the small things like not having characters with '2 attacks' making initiative and round managment a pain.
So there was a lot of good in 3E. I have enjoyed GMing it.

However....
The stances and diferent coloured dices/card sides complicated and confused combat in my opinion - too much to work out all at one go for most new players, and even far to abstract for many experienced players.
"I'm red 2 and have 2 yellow and 1 white dice plus 3 blue, two of which I can change to red apparantly - don't ask me why, but I need to add two black a purple and I'm not sure if I need it but there is a brown D6 in my hand for some reason. Now what do I need to successfully hit? Whats my chance? I have no idea!" Too many dice too many colours too in the way.
Player card, class card, race card, attack cards, damage card, that other card that I have no idea what it does. Add in an ever increasing number of trackers for fatigue, groups, plot, chases, body odour tracker and so on, and it gets overload. Am I playing an RPG or a collectable card game?
This is the 'boardgame' element that has been heavily critisized.

All that though pales in comparison to two simple problems.

Expansion:
The set is built for a 3 player + GM set up. Adding more players withoput having to get a whole new and very expensive core set is a right pain. Not so easy to expand. And woe betide the GM who's party decides to be 4 Trolls Slayers - that would be 4 sets if you wanted to give each their own set of cards. It is so card specific at times that expanding can be a problem. In 2E all I would have needed is 4 PC sheets. Plus expansion in itself becomes and issue when you need a small trolly to wheel around all the cards and counters as they add up and add.

Worry about the future
With the arrival of the pen and paper guide versions storm clouds have well and truly gathered. Will 3E continue with the cards, or go down the pen and paper route? Assurances aside I am concerend that I will be buying into a system that will soon have morphed away from 3E making all those cards and counters superflous..

Which is the crux of the issue really. Nevermind a poll - what is the future going to be for 3E right now? I am not certain which way the wind is blowing, and am waiting and watching to see if FFG stick by 3E or not.