To me the center of DW is Marines coming from different backgrounds initially and becoming one as a team.

One idea I have in mind is to unlock bonuses for kill-team specialization. Maybe a small bonus on a skill or characteristic, plus some Advances getting unlocked for the kill-team as a whole. My player's kill-team has specialized in missions in the Acheros salients, in particular lesser xeno races that still exist in the area. So some bonus against Chaos perhaps, as well as a bonus to CL(Jerich Reach) when it comes to lesser known xeno realms?

Then we had the idea of swapping chapter trappings, that has been explored in a past thread.

Finally, there is still the question of librarians and if they can learn the spells from other chapters under specific conditions. Or is that secret knowledge that will never be shared? Hard to imagine that it never happens, hard to imagine that happens more than very rarely. Probably only under oath to not pass on the knowledge to one's home chapter.

Any other ideas, guys? One problem in particular that I see is that by the time the team has grown together we have a bunch of high ranking marines that are too good for many missions. They should be heading their own kill-teams instead. Or have served their duty and return home. A lot of GMs have reported having trouble running high-rank campaigns, so that remains one of the major problems, if not the major problem of the game in my eyes.

Alex

Something akin to Cell Directives from Dark Heresy could work?

I wouldn't allow learning other psyker powers, though... I think they're more coded into gene-seed than anything.

bluntpencil2001 said:

Yeah, sth like that. I consider it more vital for DW than for DH for above mentioned reasons.

bluntpencil2001 said:

But it would make for a more interesting game imho. Can we create other synergies, for example, between Techmarines of different chapters? The goal isn't to help the players minmaxing, there's lots of opportunities for that already. My goal is make the system reflect the change of a kill-team from a band of heroic individuals to begin with into a lean, mean (even more so) fighting machine at rank 5+.

Hmm... perhaps group squad modes? Things a kill-team can buy (for its current members) if everyone spends at the same time 500xp (and is rank 4+)? Or custom oaths? Unlocked by the group by paying xp (the team leader needs to be rank 3+ to use it)? Just some ideas.

Alex

ak-73 said:

I like the idea of a cell directive style list. This would need to be more customized to each kill team than the normal lists, in my view. Maybe with designated unit based and individual talents. Unit talents would require everyone to have them to gain their benefit while individual talents would not.

I could definitely see an "Improved Unit Cohesion" talent for everyone to buy at 3-500 xp. If everyone in the kill-team has the talent that would give that team +3 cohesion.

Chapter Cross-training - 1,000 xp - individual - you have served for long periods of time with another chapter and have learned their combat doctrines. Chose one chapter of Space Marines. Anytime another marine in your kill-team, from your chosen chapter, activates their chapter squad mode ability, you may participate as if you were from that chapter. You cannot activate any squad mode abilities that are outside your chapter.

Spread the Load - 500 xp - individual - Your foresight in packing an extra piece of gear for someone in your team has paid off. Once per mission you may make a challenging (+0) Fellowship test to be able to supply one member of your team with an extra clip of ammo, an extra grenade(s), or other piece of basic kit, subject to the GM's discression. This supplied item should be considered unuseable by the person supplying it.

I have some more ideas, but they could get complicated.

The main question is what happens when a PC retires for whatever reason.

Alex

ak-73 said:

Any replacement would have to purchase the unit based talents to be able to fit in with his new team. This would go with idea of a well oiled machine of a kill-team that lost a member and the new guy doesn't quite fit in, due to being in a new environment and not as trusted.

If a replacement character has equivalent xp then they may be being moved from a different kill-team and already have these talents. If that is the case a few fellowship roles to join the group before mission or automatically after a mission should be a good way to end any suspension of talents.

If it's something like the Chapter Cross-training talent I suggested, if the one member of the team that represents the chapter of choice leaves, then the talnet isn't useable. That's the price you pay for that kind of flexibility.

Just wanted to chime in a moment and contribute with some constructive criticism.

ItsUncertainWho said:

This already exists in some version. I do not recall fully where, as it's been a while, but I think it's in Rites of Battle, but they do have something where you can learn, and be considered part of, another Chapter's Group Mode abilities. May want to look into it. Or, was this just your attempt at doing a bit of a homebrew to that?

ItsUncertainWho said:

Aside from essentially magically able to have a needed item one of your battle-brothers might need in the face of strife, this seems to be a bit of a bogging down attempt in terms of mechanics. Especially when it's considered not useful for yourself (which I get the logic). Might change this to allow the purchaser to use this (makes it decent), but if he uses this to aid another Battle Brother, the group gains or recovers 1 Cohesion point. Not a massive bonus, and if you define it in scope to "grendade", "ammunition", or some other such, then it'll curb the impulse to abuse this.

Buliwyf Hagnarsson said:

I didn't have the books at hand and didn't remember that being in RoB. It just seemed appropriate for the idea that was sugested.

Buliwyf Hagnarsson said:

This is more the action movie caveat of "here's the last clip" combined with a bit of "Oops, i forgot to write that bit of gear on my sheet, do I have it?" topped off with a bit of ground up Kender and " I keep this around for special occasions."

Or, Emprah forbid, the GM could bother to look beyond his gut for once and take note of whether or not the team deserves those kind of bonuses based on the way they roleplay and not the way they invest XP...

Good point. Special abilities like those suggested should have a cohesion cost. Including that mechanic suffices for what you suggested.

Alex

LockLock said:

that was altogeather unnessaccary and unhelpful. that said having a mechanic to lean on and set precident at your table is a good way to create bonues like this, especially in a system like this one where the expendature of decideds the mechanical development of the toon.

ak-73 said:Chapter Cross-training - 1,000 xp - individual - you have served for long periods of time with another chapter and have learned their combat doctrines. Chose one chapter of Space Marines. Anytime another marine in your kill-team, from your chosen chapter, activates their chapter squad mode ability, you may participate as if you were from that chapter. You cannot activate any squad mode abilities that are outside your chapter..

Buliwyf Hagnarsson said:This already exists in some version. I do not recall fully where, as it's been a while, but I think it's in Rites of Battle, but they do have something where you can learn, and be considered part of, another Chapter's Group Mode abilities. May want to look into it. Or, was this just your attempt at doing a bit of a homebrew to that?

this is basically brothers of the blood from RoB page 92 in the distinctions section for 750 xp and is supposed to be part of an accolade that the GM creates. that said brothers of the blood has a loop hole in it i emailed watson about and never got a response, so i dont use it or allow it to be part of any higher rank entry toons.

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?efid=179&efcid=3&efidt=576201&efpag=0#576678

link is to the topic about the abuse it can and will create.

ak-73 said:Spread the Load - 500 xp - individual - Your foresight in packing an extra piece of gear for someone in your team has paid off. Once per mission you may make a challenging (+0) Fellowship test to be able to supply one member of your team with an extra clip of ammo, an extra grenade(s), or other piece of basic kit, subject to the GM's discression. This supplied item should be considered unuseable by the person supplying it.

i like this becuase its a sqad dependent version of the D20 modern 1 in the hole feat, where you just had one more bullet than you should have every time you passed the test. personally id make it a Challenging (+0) Fellowship test at rank 2 advancing to +10 at 5 and +20 at 7or8 and cost 1 cohesion pont, that way its spamable cohesion for ammo, and gives another use for an already scarce resource. oh and id make it usable in combat only. if you think the bonues are too high try starting at -20 and working back to +0.

ak-73 said:Hmm... perhaps group squad modes? Things a kill-team can buy (for its current members) if everyone spends at the same time 500xp (and is rank 4+)? Or custom oaths? Unlocked by the group by paying xp (the team leader needs to be rank 3+ to use it)? Just some ideas.

i really like this idea, probably becuase its everyone chips in now or not at all meaning while your table of friends work well togeather they actually have to deal with the sacrifice of immdeate loss of toon development towards their end game goal for the team progression.

Don't forget that by rights, the whole XP that the marine gains represents them working as a team, with a bunch of strangers. I think it's mentioned somewhere.

The 'use other's Patterns' thing is near the end of RoB, and also represented by 'Brothers of Blood' distinctions.