Ive read through the description in the Ascension book for the IGST class ( pg.43 ) and found it at odds with itself ( training and background ) and was wondering what other GMs might think as far as proposed fixes for the class. According to the book the vast majority of IGST are from the Schola Progenium schools ( IE NOT volunteers or other walk-on types ) as it clearly states in the following excerpt:

The Schola Progenium exists to adopt children whose parents
died in the Emperor’s service and train them to become the
bedrock of the Imperium. The Schola’s graduates are scattered
across Imperial society: the Ecclesiarchy, Administratum,
Adeptus Arbites, Commissariat, Adepta Sororitas, or even the
Inquisition. However, for those who prove to be particularly
martial and aggressive, the Schola reserves its most difficult
and dangerous training. This is the instruction provided to
the famous Imperial Guard Storm Troopers.

Storm Trooper Training begins immediately after the
Schola Progenium’s primary education but does not supplant
it. After all, potential Storm Troopers are expected to be
more than simply warriors. Each is expected to be both wellschooled
in basic education and Imperial lore and history, and
be unwaveringly loyal to the Imperium as well (something a
Schola education works diligently to impart).

Although the vast majority of Storm Troopers are
progena, at times a senior official of the Imperium (such as an
Inquisitor) uses his authority to have an individual inducted
into the Storm Trooper Training of the Schola Progenium. In
these situations, the Schola Progenium makes no distinction
between a barely-teenage new recruit and a grizzled veteran
with years of service, and any complaints those veterans
may have are quickly crushed under the weight of training.
When (or if ) those recruits emerge as Storm Troopers, they
are often removed from their squad and assigned to their
patron, instead.

Now my primary question is this:

How are they considering this an Ascension class when it can OBVIOUSLY be given to ( and almost always IS ) a raw inexperienced Progenium from straight out the gate? According to their standard here it is NOT an Ascension class for Progenium but something they are to start out with if they meet the criteria by the time they are finished with their Primary schooling. Now i understand how it could be an ascension class for those whos Inquisitors felt them worthy and able to do it...BUT what about a Progenium character freshly done with training but that happened to catch the eye of an Inquisitor ( like all acolytes have to ) since the Storm Troopers are said to always be held in very high esteem by the Inquisition ( they use storm troopers pretty much exclusibely to guard the inquisition bases both known and unknown. Mosy notably the remnants of the 99th Elysian Drop Troop regiment ( storm troopers ) that were reformed into Detachment D-99 seconded to the Inquisition )

If this is the case and standard for IGST training then why shouldnt it be an option for initial character creation as an acolyte ( like a sub-class option ) within the Imperial Guardsman? And....what would the appropriate requirements be for it so a character with the appropriate Schola Progenium background could qualify for the training as a level 1 rank 1 acolyte newly seconded to their Inquisitor?

1) How would you set up the basic subclass of the Storm Trooper ( or would you consider it a totally separate one under the Schola Progenium NEW classification ) ?

2) What extra skills and talents do you think would be appropriate for the new class to begin with? It clearly states they are given much schooling so id say Literacy as well as High gothic language and all appropriate imperial Lore / History skills as well ( much like our high school today ).

I have several ideas about how to handle this but would like to see what my fellow GMs and even players would think about it as an option ( for a experienced player ) to begin with this type of character as i like to go with general consensus when possible in lieu of actual in print materials.

Here's the thing with Imperial Guard Storm Troopers, in the fluff - they are trained from extremely young ages, constantly, until they're sent off to kill-or-be-killed as Grade AAA epic badasses. Their training is nothing short of excrutiatingly difficult, likely only truly exceeded by Space Marine Chapters and Assassinorum Temple training in the Imperium.

So... What could even a so-green-he's-right-off-the-boat badass like an IG Storm Trooper doing with, well... lowly acolytes? Even an inexperienced Storm Trooper is of Inquisitorial Agent status minimum, meaning he'll be found only at Ascension-level gameplay or higher. Try to stat even a minimally trained Storm Trooper (someone just finished with training) as a Rank 1 Acolyte, and you'll do horrible harm to the Storm Trooper fluff.

So... what about those fellas that transition from Guardsman or Assassin or whatever into Storm Trooper? What could that possibly represent? Personally, I'm one of those who feel comfortable interpreting one set of mechanics in several distinct ways, so I just figure all those transitioning into the "Storm Trooper" ascended class have merely recieved a similar level of training/proficiency, accelerated due to an existing wealth of combat experience.

I don't see how a determined Inquisitor couldn't get a favored acolyte room into the storm trooper training facilities, with sufficient connections. I'd imagine such a character would find himself forced to utilize the wealth of real-world experience to keep up with the likely far more young and healthy storm troopers in training, but I could easily see it happen.

As usual thanks for the input. I like hearing how other GMs and players would handle things...never know when youll find/hear of a new or unique idea or angle you would not have thought of previously. Ive already garnered alot of new cool ideas to use in my games for the players from those here on the site. I like the overall idea and presentation of your standpoint and it works.

I was thinking of setting up a rank 9 Storm Trooper freshly seconded to the Inquisitors force as a "backup" for the current PCs in event they find themselves wanting too badly i was going to have them get a taste of what an Ascension character could do. ( IE using a valkyrie gunship at HIGH altitude position over the field where needed to allow the Trooper to perform much like the fluff says they are specialized for...High altirude/low orbital drop insertions using grav chutes to sow havoc among the enemy) Giving my PCs a kick in the arse for gettting a move on it once they get pinned down and called for the support..lol Basically in that role he would be an NPC attached to the cell team of acolytes as extra muscle and specialization when needed. ( think something along the lines of HALO ODST ) which from what i read of the fluff is about right...minus the drop pods..just straight grav chutes and breather mask etc..( in this case for the low orbital insertion id be going with fully enclosed carapace MINIMUM..most likey some type of lesser power armour with the grav chute for a truly menacing appearance dropping in from the sky in middle of a firefight..lol )

One thing i am tryin to figure out though is the scholastic skills the class would /should get if bringing him in to reflect some of the schooling during the trooper training regimen.....since they get all the best....im more inclined for ALL the ascension classes to give new skills/or boosting +10 to old ones if you have them already appropriate to reflect the training inherent in ANY ascended class to show the downtime and training time spent in ascension to be able to select from their new rosters as well.

I approached it like this for the guardsman I'm currently playing.

After reading the Guardsman career and Ascension path and the Schola Progenium packege from IH I knew how I wanted to present the character. Essentially he's a Cadian Kasrkin candidate that got snapped up by the Inquisition after going through all of the standard White Shield training that nearly everyone on Cadia does.

In DH the way I have always thought of the Guard -> Stormptrooper transition is like taking a US army veteran who has probably gone through Ranger school and is already a very capable soldier who has "been there done that" (with the experience, insanity and corruption points to prove it in the case of DH) and putting them through the required training to be part of a Tier 1 team like SFOD-D or DEVGRU.

Essentially taking an already legit badass and turning them into something truly scary. The ODST reference covers it pretty well.

I'd Imagine there is really no such thing as a "level 1" Stormtrooper. In my mind the ranks an Acolyte gains during the course of play are the equivilant of the training and operational experience a Stormtrooper gets before they reach Ascension level.

Nice ideas/points of view Unusualsuspect and Captain Stabby...thanks for the input...good angles on it and i find myself in agreement with the majority of it ( ive since created the character and used him as a throne agent and second in command of the new acolytes cell team ( as well as their backup when needed ) To make things amusing one of the players has chosen a Guardsman to play as and knows of the storm troopers well and is playing in character with it ( IE evil looks and crude comments etc... ) to the ST everytime pretty much but nothing bad enough to get him "reprimanded behind the shed" lol Ive put them onboard a rogue Trader ship seconded to the IG and currently en route to the PCs next destination ( Its a Lunar class with full IG regimental loadout onboard ) just to make it amusing as the PCs are aware there are currently 2 full cell teams onboard ( the other one is undercover and running a investigation of corruption/heresy among the IG units ) though the PCs have no idea waht their actual mission is ( backup the 1st cell team when the time comes ) as ive been using the shipboard encounter rules for fun during the long intermission times between planetfalls ( and to gain some extra XP and RP chances.

I'm in the camp that considers the class and rank titles to be superfluous and more guidelines. I mean look at the Guardsmen in DH - they are not JUST Imperial Guard ground troops, but representitive of any trained soldier so potentially PDF or even a noble's private guard. The same goes for the Arbitrator - could be an actual Arbites or just local law enforcement or even a private bounty hunter.

Basically don't take everything so literally and the whole thing works a lot better. In the case of the Ascension level Storm Trooper, i see it as representing any special-ops soldier or mercenary with a level of training similar to that of the Imperial Guard Storm Troopers.