What would you say are the strengths of the founding chapters and their successors?
The Ultramarines follow Guilliman fairly closely with a strength of around 1'000, but most other chapters didn't agree (but weren't in a position to object, as they were either decimated, missing their Primarch or had peed off too many others to carry much weight, you know who you are Russ), so what are the strenths of the other chapters (roughly) today (non codex primarily)?
Most are pretty much Codex chapters in terms of size - the Blood Angels, Imperial Fists, Raven Guard, are all around 1000 marines. And the Ultramarines too, obviously.
The Space Wolves chapter is larger, with 12 great companies, each of 100 or so marines.
The Salamanders chapter is smaller, with only around 700 marines.
The Dark Angels are ostensibly a Codex force, but their successor chapters (the Unforgiven) are so closely linked that arguably they remain a legion sized force in all but name.
The Iron Hands are not a Codex force, but hover around the size of a Codex chapter, perhaps slightly larger.
I've not seen anything which suggests that the White Scars deviate too far from the standard Codex template, so one imagines they're at 1000 marines, too.
according to the Codex the Black Templars count about 6,000 Brothers, shattered over the entiry Galaxy.
Lightbringer said:
The Dark Angels are ostensibly a Codex force, but their successor chapters (the Unforgiven) are so closely linked that arguably they remain a legion sized force in all but name.
Heresy! The Dark Angels know their duty and wouldn't stoop so low as to cheat around the teachings of Codex Astartes!
Also, we resent those rumors about hidden agenda or mysterious Xenos sightings around our fortress. Remember, the Fallen are just Chaos propaganda!
Err, did I just say "the Fallen"? Oh crap. That's why the Chapter master keeps telling us to shut up. Oh well.
*Exterminatus!*
The Astral Claws peaked at around 5,000 marines just prior to the Badab war. This was as a result of illegal action by their Chapter Master to build the Chapter up to what he felt was a "Legion" strength. The size of the Chapter, when discovered, was one of the issues which led to the Badab war between the Astral Claws and their allies and the wider Imperium.
After the war, many of their allies were significantly reduced in number as a result of casualties. The Mantis Warriors and Lamenters were reduced to 2-300 marines apiece, and were forbidden from recruiting for 100 years until they had completed a penitent crusade. I seem to recall that the Lamenters then ran straight into a hivefleet, which can't have helped their numbers either...
On the whole, most chapters hover around 1,000 marines. Those who number less than 300 would, one imagines, be in difficulties, and would tend to be anxious to rebuild their numbers before engaging in actions that require a company-sized commitment. When a Chapter significantly exceeds 1000 marines (like the Astral Claws or Black Templars, mentioned above) it's usually of interest to the Inqusition, as it suggests that the Chapter Master is up to something nefarious. (The Black Templars get away with it because their forces are so diffuse, and are rarely gathered in one place.)
Lightbringer said:
(The Black Templars get away with it because their forces are so diffuse, and are rarely gathered in one place.)
Yeah, if they ever gathered in one place and got counted, High Lords would be shitting bricks.
Lightbringer said:
The Space Wolves chapter is larger, with 12 great companies, each of 100 or so marines.
In the Codex Blackmane's company is said to be 200 strong and is described as second to Grimnars so I think its clear they are basically ignoring codex company size limits.
I read somewhere that the Space Wolves in total are roughly twice the size of a Codex Chapter, but I can't recall the source.
Vendettar said:
according to the Codex the Black Templars count about 6,000 Brothers, shattered over the entiry Galaxy.
I can't remembedr where I read this Fluff (might have been in the Codex Astartes: Imperial Fists article) but I see mt orecall that teh Black Templars were Rogal Dorn's way of giving Robute Gulliman the finger after Gulliman forced Dorn to split his chapter. Because the Black Templars are considered "On Crusade" permanently and crusades allow Astartes commanders to temporarily ignore chapter size limits, they get away with it on sheer technicalities.
Someone got a good roll on Lore: Codex Astartes...
Not so much giving Papa Smurf the finger as putting all the hardcore zealots in one place so the Marines who stayed Imperial Fists or split off into the Crimson Fists would be codex compliant. The legacy of that nut jobbery being why the Templars dont have any psykers and are always on crusade.
Siythe said:
Lightbringer said:
The Space Wolves chapter is larger, with 12 great companies, each of 100 or so marines.
In the Codex Blackmane's company is said to be 200 strong and is described as second to Grimnars so I think its clear they are basically ignoring codex company size limits.
They're actually all over the place. Some Great Companies are said (Especially in books) to potentially be the size of a Chapter on their own. Obviously this probably varies decade by decade, century by century.
I'm pretty sure the Ragnar books have some of the Companies in the 600ish range.
EDIT: Of course, this being GW - the canon probably has changed a few times in the past decade or two.