Got a copy of the second edition yesterday, and I'm very excited to get it to the table. I have no experience with the previous edition, so reading the rules has been a bit of a challenge, but the the examples are helpful in the rulebook.

I'm happy the game has reference sheets that come with it, but I'm curious as to why a game that requires a minimum of 3 players, why then are there only 2 reference sheets included?

None of my usual gaming friends have played either edition of the game, so it's going to be new for all of us. Why impede the flow the game by only including the 2 sheets instead of enough for the 6 players the game can handle? Just seems odd to me.

I guess that's what my scanner and color printer are for.

print an extra copy of the rulebook as well. you will be using it ALOT.

important things to remember.

consolidate power tokens can be placed in any territory (excluding seas) that have a unit token in them. ANY territory if the territory has a crown it will produce 1 additional token.

I cant stress how much power tokens are important.

the (*) tokens are phenomenally important as they often allow special abilities on top of what they normally do. This and the special consolidate token allows you to muster in the territory.

I cant stress how much mustering is important as you will only muster 3 times in a 10 turn game.

Therefore using house cards with swords on them are paramount to victory due to the rarity of mustering.

good luck on your first game.

jhagen said:

I believe you are mistaken here. The Westeros card "Winter is coming" will reshuffle the entire deck. This introduces an element of unpredictability, which may cause the Mustering cards to be drawn multiple times in a game, or very rarely as well. The Consolidate Power special order appears to have been rewritten with this possibility in mind.

jhagen said:

I think that we can place consolidate power tokens in seas now...

illuvatar said:

yes you can but you do not gain power from them.

fleets are best for raid or support orders.

Joe Dizzy said:

Unfortunately i am not mistaken. statistics are correct. there are 3 muster cards. wether you draw the reshuffle card or not. its still 3/10 after you shuffle.

the game runs for 10 turns. so you will muster statistically only 3 times by westeros cards in a 10 turn game (assuming the game goes that long).

it is as likely to muster every turn as to not muster in an entire 10 turn game.

Yes, there are three Mustering cards in the deck. And one "Winter is Coming"-card, which reshuffles the deck. Meaning that in a ten turn game you can end up with any number of Musterings.

EDIT: Deleted my numbers, because I made a mistake. The card effect is different and you can actually end up with a game that is nothing but Mustering cards each turn, since you immediately shuffle and redraw, when Winter is Coming is drawn.

I was responding to your earlier point claiming that you would only muster 3 times in a 10 turn game, which you later contradict.

Joe Dizzy said:

not contradicted. just simple math:

3 muster cards. 10 cards in the deck. game has10 turns. therefore you muster 3 times in a 10 turn game.

Please also remember there are only 9 draws from that deck, as there are no cards drawn on turn 1.

therefore 10% of all games you play will not see "winter is coming" as it is the last card in the deck.. the moment that card to shuffle the deck comes up, the odds of mustering 3 times in a game go down.

expecting to muster more than 3 times in a 10 turn game is subscribing to the same philosophy that one plays the lottery every week because "your numbers are bound to come up sometime."

odds of your first 3 cards are muster cards:

120 : 1

odds your first 4 turns are muster cards:

2800:1

hopefully that will give you an idea.

jhagen said:

So what you're saying is, that in 10% of all games you play, your prediction that "you only muster 3 times in a 10 turn game" is accurate. And that your claim decreases in accuracy every time "Winter is Coming" is drawn. That sounds very much like what I said earlier on. Funny, that.

Joe Dizzy said:

i think at this point you need to find another venue to vent.

my "claim" is statistically backed by MATH.

i think you need to re-read your math textbooks

I kept the math simple so you would understand, instead you insult me (again). funny that.

variables:

10 cards

9 turns (first turn cards are not drawn)

odds:

odds of getting "winter is coming card" - 10%

odds of mustering - 30%

the math:

odds of drawing turn 1 muster card - 30% (3 cards available from a potential 10 or 1 in 3.333 )

odds of drawing a muster card again turn 2 - 6.667 % which is a 22% of a 30% (2 cards of a possible 9 left or 1 in 4.5 for a total of 1 in 15 )

odds of drawing the last muster card turn 3 - .75% which is a 12.5% of a 6.667% (1 card left of 8 for a total of 1 in 120)

odds of the winter is coming card being next - 0.00119% which is a 14.28% of .75% chance (1 card of 7 total for a total of 1 in 840)

then that next card is to be a muster card: repeat step 1 which is a 30% of a .00119% ( 3 0f 10 for a total of 1 in 2799.99

how you figure this is a "claim" is beyond me.

Here is another way i can put it to you so you may understand:

as cards get drawn from the pile the probability of mustering goes up for every card that is removed from the total stack.

for example "supply" and "do nothing" come up turns 1 and 2. this means there are still 3 muster cards left in the deck for a total of 3/8 or 37.5% now.

you have to understand with the "winter is coming" card it resets the total card count to 10 and resets the chance to 3 in 10.

so the odds of getting 4 muster cards in a game is a 30% of a 30% at best. or 1 in every 10 games you play you will muster 4 times.

so what i am saying is that you will muster LESS than 3 times in a game using cards. only 10% of games will be guaranteed 3 times. 90% of the rest of your games will be fractionally less than 3. and this is assuming your games go 10 turns everytime.

All I am saying is that this:

jhagen said:

is not the same as this:

jhagen said:

which is also not the same as this:

jhagen said:

Why you consider this insulting is beyond me. Maybe you're taking things here much more seriously than you should?

BTW, thank you for the numbers. I was perfectly aware of the probabilities, but I'm sure whoever is reading this thread might be interested in knowing the reasoning behind the various statements in this thread.

first quotes states a 30% chance for a new player so as to not get technical.

second states likleyhood of mustering all turns is a likely as never mustering. which is factual and both are equally infinitessimal.

third states that in fact the actual numbers are less than 30% of mustering. which is true.

however taking the time to call me on this is like arguing over wether:

pi= 3.1415926.... to infinity

or is 3.14

when you are measuring a manhole cover to fit.

because arguing over the little things makes you a troll at best.

i understand you are smart joe.

so in percentage what are the chances of mustering in a 10 turn game then?

10 variables pick 9

1 of those variables adds 10 new variables (winter is coming)

pretty simple since you are perfectly aware of the probabilities .