One of my players is a girl and she would prefer to role play a character whos also a female meaning she would rather not be a space marine.

I'm thinking she could be a power armoured inquisitor who loves to right into the thick of the action but how would I balance the characters? Using acension rules as a basis how powerful would an inquisitor have to be in order to match the level 1 space marines? She wants to be a psyker and I was thinking power armor would be necessary so she could go into deep spce and underwater and stuff.

What level should she be? What gear and powers should she have? Opinions?

I've got one regular sister of battle in my current crew, she seems to hold her own at 13,000 exp without ascension level stuff although she doesn't hit as hard nor take hits as well as the marines. When she ascends she'll get even more powerful. In some cases her stats are acvtually higher then the marine s(although she lacks) the unnaturals. I did let her buy wargear to get a best quality chain sword and power armor and going forward will just give her requisition like the rest of the KT. I'm still experimenting but it seems to work ok. It is my undersanding that there is some power incompaitibility between DH psykers and Librarians but that hasn't been an issue at least for us yet.

Having had an Inquisitor playing alongside a Deathwatch Kill Team, I can say this: it's a real balancing act, ESPECIALLY if the Inquisitor is a psyker. Outside of combat, the Inquisitor will be able to handle social stuff and investigation that the Kill Team couldn't even touch. On the other hand, once you're in combat, if anything actually touches the Inquisitor (or most of the Dark Heresy careers, for that matter), they tend to end in a gory mess. On the other other hand, Dark Heresy psychic powers work on a completely different system from Deathwatch, ascended psychic powers doubly so. I was dealing with a pyrokinetic, so it was even more fun. It got to the point where, in order to give the Kill Team a chance to shine in their area of emphasis- combat- I had to find ways to limit the effectiveness of the psyker. Warp shenanigans, in short. I do believe that, if I end up in a similar situation again, I'm going to ask the non-Marine (assuming they're pulling from DH and not Rogue Trader) to play a non-psyker career.

If she wants to be a psyker, just jury rig the Deathwatch psychic system onto her character instead of the DH one. A "starting" Ascension psyker has powers that a rank 8 librarian would love to have but doesn't as the scaling to that extreme XP doesn't work well. If she absolutely must be a psyker, have her buy the her power levels normally but choose the actual powers from the codex list in Deathwatch and maybe the Grey Knight list in Daemonhunter (which has DW costs for each power).

I'm actually making an Inquisitor for my friend's rank 5 deathwatch team. He's really bad in combat but he is a complete skill monkey. Meaning he pretty much intends to hide in combat, preferably behind the techmarine, but out of combat he can do pretty much everything (seriously...they get all the masteries pretty much). He's not a psyker because it would be broken to do so.

I'm not surprised we are having this thread, again; Deathwatch practically begs female players to have a challenging time of character-building. That said, I think going the Inquisitor route could work well for you. I think your average L1 Deathwatch Marines are 13,000-14,000 exp, so a rank 9 or 10 Inquisitor could prove a very nice, and powerful build. Since pretty much every class can lead to it, they will also have a nice flexibility to fill in perceived gaps the rest of the KT has. Personally, I'm not sold on Power Armor for her, though it's almost a given to go that route (I'm never certain that the small boost to Armor is worth the rather greatly likelyhood you are going to need to use it, as you are easier to hit, though if you can get Ignatus PA on p.143 of Ascension, the strength boost and helmet package can be great), and if she can Influence-grab a few other usefuls, such as a refractor field/Icon of the Just, some nice weapons, and such, she could easily stand with the Battle Brothers, or at least behind them. I agree that, psyker or not, she should likely try to maintain a more remote role in combat, being only human (unless she's been teched up, like the Inq in Space Marin for the PS3/XBox 360). Her access to various skills, and to the Heroic and Master levels of Char/Skill Boosts mean she can get very well in the places everyone decides it would be good to build her in.

My only two worries; one, story might be a smidge tricky. Making every mission fit so that an Inquisitor has a reason to go with the team MIGHT prove tricky (maybe not, that's just me, potentially), as well as keeping her skill sets relevant between the variety of tasks.

Second, I'm not sure about her being a psyker. I love them, personally, and it's a safe bet that I would be likely to play one most every time it was feasible (I often enjoy being the one with a power I ought not have), but DH and RT have a history of not meshing well, for psykers, as has been mentioned prior. If you go with it, then try to fight for DH psykers, rather than shoehorning DW powers/rules in; she'll be very powerful, but she's likely going to be a glass cannon, once Hordes begin to show up, and assuming she isn't wearing a jetpack, and hovering above the multitudes, a little exposure to Hordes might make her day end messy. Space Marine psykers don't necessarily seem as juiced, but Space Marines are juiced walking, so it balanced them, and she'll want all the power possible to survive the same rigors.

So, my end suggestion is thus: decide how powerful a psyker you want, and how good the SM's psyker rep in the group is, pick a class (probably NOT Psyker, but one that compliments or assists the party standing), get an ElAdv for PR1 somewhere, and take the Inquisitor package The Psyker's Gift, along with the Opening the Mind's Eye Trans Package. This way, Psychic Powers and Rating increases cost heavy, and can serve to balance her power. If you go ImpPskr-->Inquisitor, expect her to be POWERFUL. After deciding that bit, get her some nice armor, a good field generator, and the necessary gear to travel with the SM's, and you should be good. If you plan to have much combat (DW does, I suppose), I suggest grabbing Transcendent Hate. This nice little Paragon Talent can give her, and the Marines nearby, a nice little further boost to hit their foes, without being a psychic effect. It's easy to use, non-selective of enemy type (at this stage), and overall, a nice feel for a Xenos-loathing Puritan Inquisitor.

Their first mission is going to be saving her from a heretek cult who shes been captured by on world about to exterminatussed cause the tyranids are swarming all over it. They have a day to break into the facilaty and spring her. Whilst in the facillatythe inquisitor aquires information that her former master has become dangerously radical and self serving. SHe will endup leaving with no proof and only the deathwatch team will be the only other individuals who could belives her.

Now the space marines are honour bound to bring the truth to light and bring the heretic down before he can bring doom on the crusade. And these Marine will be the only ones she can trust in the coming weeks as her masters agents are everywhere.

I'm going to make it interesting because the antagonist was sort of a father figure to the main character who protected her from the blackships and raised her as his own. The first time she has to fire on him its going to require a willpower test or something like that.

ieatdeadpeople said:

Out of curiosity, are currently dating or trying to eventually date the female player? Just be careful that the campaign doesn't become a one man (or woman in this case) show simply because a certain player has an extra X chromosome. GM's girlfriend PCs are usually worse than GM PCs gone awry.

Personally if I was trying to make a playable Inquisitor thats compatible with Deathwatch I think would just use a space marine librarian as the staring point.

You could make up some fluff for why the character has unnatural strength and toughness - extensive vat grown muscle grafts and cybernetic implants, born on a high gravity world or used psychic powers to enhance body metabolism for example.

Use the design your own chapter rules to select a set of 'chapter' advances and 'combat modes'.

Will probably be much less trouble for you to GM and the other players wont get the impression that you are playing favourites.

Very briefly, I had a Desperado in my Deathwatch game. Throne Agent that the PCs had to meet up with. I was running Extraction and he happened to be on the moon and in the shuttle with the Magos, and was left behind for dead when it crashed.

Long story short, the Desperado could've been one-shotted even by a gaunt. He actually held his own, somehow dodging the attacks of and killing two Tyranid Warriors, but he had also invested wisely in dodge, gun talents and good firearms - Ascension-level high-craftsmanship meltas and plasmas, if I recall correctly. Still, a single good hit would have pasted him.

He stopped playing but I realize it wouldn't have worked out long-term. Some of the social issues the Astartes PCs would have had to deal with, the Desperado would have blown through effortlessly. Ditto skill tests that Astartes only get at higher ranks but that any DH-based character will have by Rank 3, let alone Ascension. I think a single Space Marine would work better in an Ascension game than a single ascended career acolyte in a Deathwatch game. Battle Sister might be an exception, they can do well in combat, their armor is decent, you could figure out a way to give them Unnatural Characteristics, and their Faith Talents would be a nice counterpoint to DW powers. Overall though, Ascension doesn't mix well with anything - it's best played straight.

Kshatriya said:

With the right good tech, I could see an Inquisitor making a very nice attachment to a DW Kill Team, and their emphasis on skills could pay off, assisting Space Marines greatly, but it would have to be the right good tech, and it would be spendy, too. Also, it might start to look less like the Inquisitor player needs all the stuff to be on par, and more they GET all the neat stuff, because they are special, in-game or out.

For a good survivability rate, I'd almost have expect that she is sporting high-quality Ignatus Power Armor (maybe Good or even Best Quality; just to be close to par with the Astartes; shame only Coteaz gets Art. Armor), a Rosarius or Icon of the Just (to mitigate hits she can't absorb as well as they can), a Power Sword, and one hell of a gun (like every player ), much of which is hard to acquire alone, but to get them all is very tough for even an accomplished Inquisitor, and such difficulty shouldn't be lessened just because she's in DW. For the rules lawyer in me, each Influence check would be around -30 or more against her Influence, which would be hard-pressed to be above 50, 60 tops, and that's not for permanent ownership (extra -20). If she req'ed it from the DW (since Influence isn't a DW mechanic), it wouldn't be too much easier, if at all, since she can't just say "I'm an Inquisitor, so let me take that", to them anymore than she can to the Inquisition, so getting her entire kit could prove challenging, and without it, one decent Horde, or a powerful Elite/mid Master could end her for good.

Overall, I'd have to agree though, fitting one Ascension character in with Marines is hard to do, at best. Said Inquisitor could have her boons, but after the recovery mission, she'd be taken back to base, and return to her "regular" activities. In this story, that could be dangerous, but the Watch Commander would not likely let his team keep following her around, getting into politics. She'd have to stay involved with THEIR varied missions, which makes little sense, and it would be hard for her to collect much against her former Master that way; that's a job for her and her Acolytes, not her and a team of confiscated Space Marines. Sure, they have a prerogative to deal with corruption, but they aren't really investigators, so they wouldn't really help. I'd say the Watch would give her asylum, and she could reach out to contacts/acolytes for assistance, but till she had hard evidence, the SMs wouldn't directly help. I'm certainly not trying to tell you how you have to run your game: DW is possibly the worst game in set for the group with female gamers in it, if said players want to play to gender, but the fix will feel like a fix, and making it roll smooth could prove tricky, at best. What you could do would be to have the team, her included, hit various bases of his, or places he's been, but it has to feel like a Deathwatch game, with Space Marines fighting Chaos Marines, and hordes of Nids or Orks, and her surviving, and fitting in, rather than a game of DH played with Space Marines.

Of course you could set up your campaign were they really don't have time to return to base and consult their Watch Captain. They are in a battlefield that covers light years. So you have them show up, and save the Inquisitor, because sometimes even Eisenhorn needed a Space Marine. But the Inquisitor has information about the Xenos/Chaos/Heretical taint going on in this system, and it has to be dealt with NOW! No time to jump a warp ship and take 3 weeks +/- 1000 years to consult. In that situation, the Deathwatch squad commander will be forced into a decision. Does he disregard the 'allied' inquisitor's needs, or does he follow his mandate.

Salcor

The campagin is going to be set in a home brew setting not in the Jericho Reach. Though I like Watch fotress Erinoch and the whole Omega Vault part of it interesting I really find the rest of the setting very very dull. Not nearly as original or cool as some of the planets in the calixis secotr or the Kronus Expanse.

And I would also think that though the deathwatch does not have to stick with the Inqusitor they would want to in order to help her deal with the corruption. Once the watch captain hears out the inquisitor and her tale is backed up by my players he would assign them to her as a bodygaurd. Shes the only one who can bring this treachery to light and who better to gaurd her as she digs up the proof she needs to bring the inquisitor infront of a conclave then Astartes?

On a side thread, the one that went off about assassins for 3 weeks, it was revealed to some of us that in the Daemon Hunter supplement there are all kinds of goodies for inquisitors to use, including Inquisitorial Terminator Armor. Might be worth checking out, though I've not personally read the book but it's been said by at least one person it's as much of a DW supplement as it is a DH one.

Provided you know there is an added cost to having mixed system characters, it sounds like you're on the right track with your campaign design.

And sorry to hear you don't find the reach interesting, I find the backdrop of a crusade on the brink pretty interesting for DW characters, with planets ranging from forest worlds to ice balls, and newly discovered territories to fortress worlds, ancient civilizations and new ones...its very own eye of terror, and tyranids! But, we all like different things, good luck with the system design!

Charmander said:

I have that book, and the stuff is good, but getting to use the stuff can be a bit tricky. That armor, while good, is Unique-level rare (I think -70), so any Influence test for it is likely to go boom, and I don't know how Inquisitors requisition, if they even can. While it would be nice for an Inquisitor to just go "**** it, I'm an Inquisitor on a mission. Give me my **** gear!", either method of acquisition is shaky for her, and could be difficult. The best bet, if the GM is feeling VERY generous, would be to get a Talent, and call it Tetrarchus's Good Graces. It would be a different name for The Lord Sector's Ear, from Ascension, and could allow for the Inquisitor to roll with the Lord Militant's Influence (maybe 150), rather than her own, which won't likely be that good/good enough. It would still allow for failure, and excessive failure would bring about his ire, but it would otherwise be a legit way to get the gear needed, without the GM just saying "here, cause you need it".

Charmander said:

It's a bit sad, but I can kinda understand the feeling. The Reach is probably boned, between an endless Hive Fleet that the Crusade probably cannot defeat, and the forces of Chaos undermining everything they try to deal with the Nids. The Tau might be manageable, especially if the Crusade forces can "push" the Nids on a path into them; can't sucker Nids with that Greater Good nonsense. Or the Imperium might have to ceasefire with the Tau, and fight together against the Hive Fleet, the worst threat in the region. The way its set up, though, it sort of stifles much else for options. I doubt there are much for Eldar out there, and while I'm sure there are Orks, they don't have a prayer against da' Bugz. Otherwise, to me the Reach often feels like, no matter what you try to do, eventually it will fall back to "you must do battle against Dagon", and you don't triumph, because the Nid forces SEEM unstoppable. DH is in a nice, inhabited (and corrupted) area, and RT you can go anywhere, but the Reach? They almost might as well pull back through the Gate, and man that side, blasting anything that comes through.

venkelos said:

Interesting- at that point I'd just let the GM decide if it was needed for the Inquisitor PC to be balanced with the other PCs. The tricky part with Inquisitors is that they will 100% trump the PCs with skills and social interaction. Meaning if you make them equivalent at combat, they'll just outshine the PCs in general, which to me is a bad thing. That's probably the hardest point of balance between the systems.

venkelos said:

Personally I find the backdrop of war fitting for SMs- in DH you play as arbitrators, clerics, adepts, etc., and the backdrop of war can be especially dangerous. Plus the themes of DH are about investiation, stopping the daemonic manifestation before it starts kind of stuff. The DW comes in when the Acolytes go "oh ****."

I think the Reach was intentionally put on the brink in order to empower the PCs- they're super high level and they get to deal with generals, planetary governors, lord generals, etc., and they should be able to influence the tide of the battle. In the fluff they have, the Nids were handed defeat at Treyen, which was described as a turning point for the Navy. They've got a new plan to punish the fleet, but "time will tell" how that ends. To me that says the GM can go "It worked!" or they can go "it will only work if you support them!" Similar for Chaos, the Crusade forces are massing up in order to make a strike into the Chaos controlled zones, but they ahve to contend with Chaos Marine Battle Barges and the like, meaning the GM can again go "The crusade was successful!" or "If Han doesn't get that deflector shield down it will be the shortest offense in history!"

Regarding the investigative vs lots of combat problem that seems to be a major clashing point between DH and DW; It's not as bad as you think. If your Inquisitor player is even half awake, he should be constantly asking questions and probing everything. And trusting NOBODY. If you can have a player who will do this, you'll have a great game. It's especially entertaining with a Dark Angel in the team The other Astartes may find the Inquisitors paranoia pointless or a sign of madness or whatever, but it can cause some interesting internal discussions and disagreements. Which is great from a DM perspective so long as it doesn't actually destroy the team or friendships amongst the players, so don't let it get too out of hand. It's great because part of the problem people have with DW is that they think spess mahrins don't have any personality. Rubbish I say! Rubbish! Go read the Horus Heresy books! Look! Personality! Stereotypical maybe, but oodles of it at least!

-Durandal

PS. This was another **** multipost edited to usefulness

I'm currently running a 6 player game consisting of 5 marines and Schola Progenium Adept with the Xenoarcanist package ascended to Inquisitor. Now, initially this sounds like total suicide for the DH character. Adepts are very , very squishy in any sort of near violent environment. This is not helped by tossing them into the middle of a Deathwatch warzone. It is true that between the DH player and I we had to trawl through almost every DH and RT book looking for gear to just make him maybe comparable. However, there are lots of other benefits for a KT to have an Inquisitor kicking about, certainly my marines have discovered that while being a member of the Astartes is great in combat, socially, not so great. NPC's (particularly everyday joes) are so utterly in awe, they become essentially useless and even the high and mightys of the Imperial Guard/Navy may well either be sycophantic or otherwise awed to unhelpfulness. Inquisitors bring a sense of..focus to the relevent NPC's. Inquisitors are by their nature social beings. Space Marines are not (in general). Inquisitors can go an awful lot more places that SM's can't and can do it without drawing oodles of attention to themselves. Or the Inquisitor can use their Rosette to scare the utter crap out of entire planets. Certainly as far as I'm aware, ALL Inquisitors have the ability to declare exterminatus, something that is only doable by fairly high-ranking Astartes. Inquisitors are also fantastic skill wise.

By the time a DH character is ranked up to Deathwatch level and are made an Inquisitor, particularly for Adepts, they're veritable walking libraries. Particularly if you buy the Skill Masteries which give the character every skill in the associated group at +20.

Now of course, combat is very important. What helps with combat? Gear helps with combat! SO. As I said earlier, we trawled through virtually the entire non-Deathwatch library for kit. Found a nice mix of RT and DH gear to use. Eventually we settled on allowing the Character some pretty hefty base equipment (including Power Armour, a Storm Bolter and a Sentinel Array to highlight a few) while allowing him to make a few checks on equipment we judged was 'off-mission'. Just to clue you in, his character is a newly minted Inquisitor (~5 years) who has been attached to a KT as an ongoing mission specialist. He naturally thinks that this honour, which could be construed as insulting, dishonourable and possibly even heretical to decline, is in fact someone trying to get him killed. Hey may be right.

I do apologise that this post is so disorganized, it sort of developed organically.

Hope it's helpful!

*sigh* dongles are rubbish for the net

I hate my internet!

Durandal7 said:

Glad you're having success at it- I think the biggest problem is in striking the balance, right? By the time you Ascend, you've got skills out the yin yang. If you gear up an Ascended character to match the combat prowess of a Marine, the fear is that they'll outsine the Marine characters, as they will not only be badasses on the field, but they will also outmatch them in any brain or social games as well.

*That* is my main concern when I look at a mixed bag. I'm not saying it can't be done, and you and a handful of others are living proof that it *can* be done. If you have additional tips on what you did to help things go off without a hitch, I'm sure the forum would love to hear it, as there are many (myself included) skeptics. What do you do to let the characters shine in their own arenas but not overshadow in others? Does it require simple tweaks to the load out or does it require a group that's simply able to handle the mesh?

Charmander said:

It was a little rough to begin with. I'll let you know what I started with and how things changed.

Consecrator Apothecary

Blood Angel Assault Marine

Space Wolf Rune Priest (Librarian)

Nova Marine Techmarine

Imperial Fist Devastator Marine

+and+

The Schola Progenium Adept Xenoarcanist Ascended Inquisitor

++PLAYERS WHO LEFT++

Blood Angel Assault Marine

Nova Marine Techmarine

++PLAYERS WHO JOINED++

Flesh Tearer Assault Marine

Salamander Assault Marine

After running the KT through Oblivions Edge; The BA Assault Marine and NM Techmarines players were given the boot and replaced by two new players who became a Salamander Tactical and Flesh Tearer Assault Marine respectively. This was nothing to do with the Inquisitor or DH characters, it was player-player and player-GM clash. I include it as it may or may not be of academic interest.

SO Oblivions Edge is very much FFG showing off combat and how missions work. The DH player, while taking part in everything very much wasn't left with huge amounts to do as he's super squishy and a social character. This was somewhat helped by the Marines literally taking a step back to allow the Inquisitor to do his thing socially. The Inquisitor took to this with gusto and proceeded to explore the social/political capabilities of the Inquisitor on lots of hapless locals. He found the combat hard, but never shyed away from it. This helped him, RP-wise, cement a bond with the Astartes.

++SPOILER WARNING++

++THE FOLLOWING CONTAINS INFORMATION ABOUT THE EMPEROR PROTECTS ++

Flash forward about 3 months real world time and I start running TEP with the above lineup changes. Note, they were not to do with the time difference. I gave the Inquisitor a special briefing before and without the knowledge of the Marines citing Inquisitorial contacts, politicking and generally wanting to know everything. I also gave him access to some materiels that were meant for Marine eyes but never made it there (and in game were never intended too). Notably the report signed by Inquisitor Quist. This gives the Inquisitor something to sink his teeth into and generally let him be the only one with certain bits of information. Now alot of that info did come out in the Astartes briefing but not all of it. He still had a few interesting nuggets which is really up to the player to make use of.

Once aboard the Horizons Pride the Corrupted Servitor encounters kicked off broadly according to the book, while *none* -and this surprised me- of the Marines wanted the more austere quarters so I had to have them notice the decrepid state of the servitors and from there the Inquisitor was literally in his element and the Marines knew it. While they each chipped in here and there when they had something to add, the Inquisitor drove it all the way and wound up in a stand off with all 5 marines, himself, Diaz Lan and the ships Chief Enginseer (not the right term, but I don't have BFK infront of me) berating him for having a Heretek in his midst completely unknown. It was more than a little tense but nothing kicked off. He's not had much chance on the planet yet but they landed and more or less walked straight into the Divested Hunt without any other distractions.

I'm more than happy to keep folk posted on this as I continue the game but it will be a good 2-3 weeks before the next session due to me being away.

On the point of over-gearing a DH character to outshine Astartes, yes it is a worry. I thought I had done arming him with a Storm Bolter due to the sheer nastiness vs hoardes, but actually, the damage differential is such that it's not really an issue vs single hard targets. There are some very very important differences between almost any DH char and a Space Marine. Space Marine implants is far and away the most important. That Unnatural Strength and Toughness is really important. All the nice little bonuses here and there are great too as is the Black Carapace, another super important implant. The Astartes Weapon Training is key, DH characters don't get anything near to that till Ascension I believe. That all works to make enough of a difference that in combat, a Space Marine is still king. Yes a Magos is hard as feth and a Vindicare is the best shot in the game. BUT Space Marines are the best universal combatants with the right sort of backing and infrastructure.

Regarding the less mechanical aspects, some clever modifications/tailoring of adventures to help DH characters along is necessary but it doesnt have to be a total re-write. The most important aspect is having players who understand the universe. This is not a newbie friendly universe guys. The Inquisitor player, until this game, had never really read or played much 40k at all. I essentially schooled him for about 3 weeks and gave him a reading list! Good thing this guy eats fluff eh! I had him reading material from the late 80's. He needed all that understanding just to get a grip on the universe and the Inquisition. The player is also a fairly paranoid player, he likes to ask questions and really interrogate NPC's he thinks have important information.

I'm more than happy to accept that I may have just lucked out with my player group. Or I may be doing all the right things or a mixture of the two. I'm more than happy to answer more questions if you have them.

-Durandal

I was just thinking about this very same issue, and came up with the same solution, for the most part. A female =][= (or SOB). I can totally see the Kill Team circling up around her during combat. It makes perfect sense that they would have to protect her. play a few games with her on even stats then adjust as you go.