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http://thefoundary.blogspot.com/2011/03/warhammer-fantasy-rpg-dreaded-3rd.html

I am speechless,

Malte

Wow, that review is an uninformed pile of garbage. It's clear she never played the game.

I love WFRP3 and so does my home group. It has allowed for far more roleplaying than any other system I have played and I plan to continue playing it and writing and supporting Liber Fanatica for a long time.

I can see that the new system makes it easier to fall into power gaming or "card gaming" - just the way how it is presented. An inexperienced or new GM/group might think that is how you have to play. Anyhow, you have to cut the fat. I use half of the rules and I really, really can't see why this is seen as a "board game" or "WOW" game.

I use all the rules and I still don't feel like its a board game. All the bits are simply a visual way of representing traditionally written down things. To me that means I can look around the table (as a GM) and see everyone's current state. That is really cool to me. Its nothing groundbreaking, but dealing with lower numbers of wounds vs. D&D hit points makes it possible. I wouldn't want to see my wife's ranger with over 100 hp tracking it with tokens, but her grave robber with a wound threshold of 12 or 14 is pretty easy to see.

I don't mean to toot my own horn here, but I consider myself a pretty good GM, and that, and like-minded players, is what makes ANY roleplay game good.

Ugh, I could go on and on about how wrong "Iron Liz" is, but she isn't worth it.

Interesting review. She got many things wrong, it's easy to see that she did not even try to play it once or twice before making the review.

I love how AFTER she said that it "SUCKS" like, 4 or 5 times in a row, she then says that she'll give it a fair and objective review.

Then says, it SUCKS again, almost straight away, and then said "I've never played it".

SO OBJECTIVE!!! HA HA HA

One should always be suspicious of something advertised as an "objective review", but this person cannot even be subjective about it - she has not acquired the subjective experience of actually playing the game .

I though she was a guy....who never played the game.

Well, one less attentionwhore on these forums, and thats good for me.

Well, at least it was a funny report, it made me laugh one or twice.

Regarding my opinion, I think she gets many things wrong about the game mechanics. I personally think that the mechanics are quite revolutionary, and having everything on cards allows you to have your character self explained without having to look around tables and definitions in different books when you don't remember something about your PC. Nonetheless, it is true that at the begining they can be a bit overwhelming, but I personally think that it is for the good.

On the other hand, I have been playing through the first and second editions (...that is about 21 years ago when I started), and I have to say that she has a point on some of the things she says.

-Careers are not anymore a strong defining object of your character (apart from Wizards and Priest). You can buy whatever action card and talents you like independently of the career even if they have no relation to your current career (that they are useful or not is another subject).

-The concept of talents has changed completely in a way I don't like at all and I am still looking to develop a good house rule that fits me and the 3rd ed mechanics. The soketing thing is wierd, you learn talents and you cannot socket them anymore when you change your career and the slots have changed. I know you can still soket them to the party sheet, but the fact that all of a sudden you cannot use them anymore on your character sheet is odd, is indeed like forgeting aptitudes that you practice often. I have to say that this part of the review was fun with the scenes from matrix

-She was also right concerning the scarce amount of background material. Not that I care at all, since I own all the books from previous editions I don't have a lack of background material. But it is a bit painful to house rule /adapt so many things from previous editions.

All in all, I like the system and I have faith that the production team will keep on developing this game which has a huge potential. For example, with the releasing of the next complement Heroe's call, I hope I will be able to drop my house rules about human regional starting diferences.

Hi all,

a thing I dont understand is: are careers as strong defining element desirable or not?

She says that the careers leave not much space for character development, pushing the char some kind of predestined way not allowing for free development, but at the same time she disapproves the talent system that allows quite a lot of freedom. Maybe I understood it wrong...

I dont like the original approach to the talents upon career transition either, but there is an explanation (along a houserule) that helps me feel confortable with it:

A character can only purchase talents as listed on his careersheet. A talent can be slotted to any free talent slot. If it is of matching type, there is no additional cost. If it is of different type, the character suffers 1 fatigue or stress (depending on talent in question).

After career transition, a character is on a different path and focuses on different tasks. Of course he still remembers the stuff from earlier days, but its just a little tiresome to remember or do how it was done those days...

Telakbir said:

Thanks! This is brilliant!

She obviously never tried the game, and in fact never really gave the game or what she read any thought whatsoever.

For instance, she says quite a few times that the game "railroads" or forces the PC in a direction, yet the simple fact is that the new WFRP is *less* restricted in character growth than the previous two versions. You can buy whatever Actions and Talents and Ability increases that you want for your PC. Granted, some are cheaper to get, but beyond a few generalities, Actions and Talents especially are pretty much based on how the player wants the PC to evolve and is not restricted by career. This is an improvement. Careers have definition by providing unique bonuses and reduced costs for certain characteristic increases and skills. Otherwise, you can evolve your PC as you envision them.

RE:scarce material

There is scarce material in the included books ... but there is a huge wealth of material about the world already available. There exists a plethora of stuff from 1st and 2nd Edition. GW and FFG are not going to throw all that material out the window and completely change how everything works in Warhammer Fantasy. So, does FFG really need to reprint in depth material that has already been printed in depth in previous books? Especially in the Core Set, when there is so much else they could include instead? The only thing that has essentially changed are the mechanics of of the game. The background setting and material from previous editions is all still perfectly valid. GMs still have a huge amount of source material for ideas and plots, etc, available to them outside of the 3rd ed Core Set.

@Telakbir - I like that houserule. I might even suggest that rather than costing stress to slot, that it costs a stress each time the PC uses a talent that is socketed in an incorrect slot.

Non-exit/entry forcing for character advancement is one of the things that I really appreciate about the game. I think the trait bit is a smart addition.

We of course use a modified version of advancement, but the use of the traits is very sensible.

What an ignorant review to be honest. It's not that I disagree with her... it's just that she's wrong in so many instances that it's a joke. I wouldn't take anything she says seriously... she's just full of hot air, no substance. Bah. I really dislike that sort of stupid, ill informed garbage.

Gallows said:

lol I do disagree with her of course, just meant that it isn't the reason I find the review to be complete garbage.

Worst review ever. It made me want to throw my laptop across the room. I don't think I have ever seen such an epic failure at comprehension in my life.