Hi to all!I have these question ,as a new palyer!

1.Does the Agility value gives any help to defence? I mean, in this game a agyle thief has little more possibility to dodge than a dwarf ironbreaker?

2.When I translate a carrer do I get the main carrer's characteristics increase, like I do during charachter creation?

No and No.

1. Agility give nothing to defense, but an Agility of 3 is required for dodge and Agility 4 (I think) is required for Improved Dodge.

2. After character generation, the only way to improve characteristics is to spend advancements.

Correct. Agility SEEMS like it should help a person's defense, however it doesn't.

It helps the dodge defense only. Probably then it would be redundant to have additional black dice in the defense category. Maybe that's why it isn't used there.

jh

Thank you so much!

i have been thinking about this a fair bit of late as my low level agility charater went well over his wound threshold but none were critical so i will start next sesion knocked out on the floor and probably have my head kicked in once everyone else dies……..sad face…

agility does affect the dodge action as said earlier but linking it directly to defense would over power agility characters

nimble strike with a rapier or dagger is better than melee attack. all the ranged cards work of agi

for agi characters you can still get defense pretty high but it relies on tactic talents so better be an assasin

main g in off hand +1 parry

catlike reflexs +2 dodge (talent card has to be burnt)

combat awarness +1defense(another tactic talent)

diestro training(florentine) +1defense

armour +1defense

dodge +1/2/p to dodge

parry +1/2/p to parry

so base defense would be 3(2*) with diestro and combat awarness* with 1 defense armour

parry would add up to 1 p and one misf. so if no other defense are recharging would be 4 misf. and 1 p

dodge would add up to 2misf. and one p so burning catlike and no other defenses recharging 5 misf. and 1 purple

to reward agility player i think

light armour(enc 0-3) should add one extra misf to dodge

med armour(enc 4-6) should leave dodge as is

heavy arm. (enc 7+ ) should remove one misf. from dodge so if you are coordinated you would get one or if you had improved you would get 2 misf instead of one purple.

gallow's armour rules work well with these as it give the nimble players a reason to be nimble and not load up on plate

master crafted black laminated ulthan scale made for a human with a cloak over the top. half weight, bonus to stealh, costs around 150g or more but would be worth it.

wheatiess said:

Lately I have been thinking about armours and penalties, and I have arribed to the question of why a suit of amour of encumbrance 7 has to penalizae your agility, coordination, athletics etc. and carrying a back pack of encumbrance 7 has not?

I think is not that much a matter of armours, but a matter that the encumbrance system in WFRP is a system of ON / OFF. You can carry up to X without penalty, and above this threshold you get severe penalties. I think a more granular rule system for encumbrance would be better instead of trying to adjudicate penalties only to armours.

I have to agree, one of the few things I didn't care for in the design of WFRP 3.0 is the omission of Agilities relevence as a "defense" mechanism in combat. Agility and combat always conjures up dexterious characters brazingly dodging swings and parrying swords forming their foundation in this agillity like based combat. In WFRP the absence of the connection seems, unatural somehow.

Still I have looked it over a dozen times and their is a clear problem with using agility to bump defense in any way and this is probobly the same conclusion the designers came to and ultimatly decided to omit it. If Agility affected defense, given all the other mechanic, it would become overwhelmingly universal and hence would become the staple of all optimized characters. WFRP seems to thrive on the idea that there is no such thing as an optimized character, and this is the aspect of the game that I really love because I feel it really does acomplish that goal. Hence I have never made any attempts to actually implement an "agility/defense" like house rule.

One concept I toyed with briefly was that Agility would reduce the recharge of dodge and improved dodge. My intention for it was to reduce the recharge by -1 for each characteristic point after 3.

So if you had a Agility of 4, your Dodge recharge would be 1. If you had 5, your dodge recharge would be 0.

Again my goal with all house rules is to "not change the mechanics" in such a way in which rebalancing is required . In this case the only thing I have changed is how often you'll be able to dodge which I think is a very minor thing that would function very well within the scope of the combat mechanic and it would reflect that a higher agility based character is much better at avoiding being hit (since he is able to use the dodge card more often.)

BigKahuna said:

I don't have a problem with the mechanics, so I'm not looking for a solution, but if this is your goal, what about letting characters with a high Agility buy additional "copies" of the Dodge action card so they can dodge multiple times a turn, perform a really "big" dodge by using them at the same time, or dodge turn after turn?

Agility would probably become to powerful if it added to defense. As it is, it adds to the chance to hit with ranged attacks, adds damage to ranged attacks, while it also adds chance to hit and damage to more than a few melee attacks as well. A character with high agility could really deal a lot of damage both at range and in melee. Not to mention the fact that a high agility score generally means that you'll roll well on initiative checks.

Since a high agility score also gives you the option to purchase improved / advanced dodge, it can also helps with defense (though in a lesser capacity).

If agility also added defense somehow it would just be overly powerful and a lot of PC's would probably have high agility scores.

RARodger said:

like the idea of this but my gm is stingey we cant pile defenses even though it is in the rules and it makes sense. have you or anyone playtested this as you end up with perpetual dodge under normal circumstances

though for a wardancer like character this would fit character and make it viable to play.

is there any mechanincs you have come up with

eg

3 agi you get dodge

3 agi coord trained you get extra misf.

4agi imp dodge you get purple

5 agi can buy another copy of dodge with coord already trained

6 agi can upgrade extra copy to improved

thing is if agi players get special treatment why cant an arms master get multi parry or shield weilder multi block(can see reasons why not for that one). though if 3str untrained is a baseline 6str 3 weapon skill may deserve multi parry but it may break the game if poeple are running around with 6 active defenses plus other reactions and guarded position

think this is in another topic so i will stop

(and what would multi parry do if you had a defensive weapon)

Well generally speaking if you are changing the rules through the use of existing rules as a foundation you are usually safer than if you are "inventing" a new mechanic. The parry, dodge and block action cards already exist, their mechanics are tested, their usage balanced. If you fiddle with things like how often you can use them for example you are working within the realm of an already tested mechanic so I think ultimatly it will work just fine without too much concern about testing.

Where you really need to be careful is in the invention of mechanics. I think really good examples (or perhaps better to say approaches) to designing expansion mechanics or mechanics that focus in on a specific topic to expand it can be found in some of Yepesnopes work. For example in his Secrets of the Anvil he expands on the crafting of ruinic items. I think the important thing to note in this work is that he firmly basis his rules on the lore of the game world as we know it (both in the current edition and past editions) and attempts to blend and create in a kind of unapologetic (here is out it should be) kind of way, noting that not everything within its pages is ment for players to control, but rather explaining how things function for the purposes of the GM's sense of base. This I think is great because its one of the short comings of a abstract system in particular in WFRP 3.0.

You can kind of see it as a question that was asked and answered with rules. How are different ruinic items created with the answer being here is the lore and the rules that support it. This is the absolute best kind of approach in my opinion as it takes into account the game worlds presence.

In regards to Dodge, Parry and Block and how agility affects them, if you are going to create expansion rules you should definitly approach it from this angle. Ask the question, from a narrative perspective how should agility affect your defense and defensive actions within the scope of what we know about the warhammer universe. What logic and realism can be derive from warhammer lore that allows us to assert what the rules should be and how they should support that sort of combat narrative.

I think the problem with some of the rules presented so far is that they are very generic fantasy rules. Another words.. in D&D and many other generic fantasy systems agility affects your defense (your AC). This however doesn't take into account the warhammer universe which I think it really should. It may be in fact intentional that agility was left out of the equation because the designers see the warhammer universe combat more a battle of wills and stamina, more griddy and less "acrobatic or fancy". Kind of like the difference between combat in Star Wars and Combat in movies like Aliens. Two sci-fi worlds that would require two very different combat mechanics to represent its combat (narrative) feel.

Just something to consider.