When you are running RT, could you have several "junior" Rogue Traders? I could see a larger group having a few captains flying under the Dynasty, empowered by the group's Warrant, serving an older individual. They could even be competing, honestly, of course, to see who might inherit the Senior Trader position, when the old man passes the Warrant on. Could you have more than one to a group, if its the character style two players like?

As a second, who usually flies a ship? If you had a small group of craft, and I could see a decent Dynasty possess several, would each have a Trader Captain (RT), or someone else flying (VM?), with one Rogue Trader over the squadron? I'd think ship groups have to happen, for big engagements, and because most ships would fall to an enemy fleet, otherwise. Just curious about these little logistical quandaries. Thanks.

Well pretty much all you are asking about is posible. In CoreRB there is example of two RT brothers that share the warrant and fleet. And the fleet problem IMO is that the PC's and RT are on flagship and the rest of ships are commanded via Vox simply givving away simple commands like attack or run at the Crew Rating of the vessel's. And having more than one RT on ship in game is kinda problematic each of them would want the Warrant for him at any price even that of death of his sibling's (well not oficialy and openly but a accsident/missfire on explored planets or backalleys of Footfall). Well the game allows to do it but why complicate the game buy such things and limit the profesions of players playing the game.

I hope it answers your questions or have I misundrstood?

No, I'd say that all worked; you got it. For me, there are bits where I have read more DH than RT. In DH, you aren't the Inquisitor (except for Ascen, where you might), but the Inquisitor can give trusted individuals their Seal, and empower them to act in their name. I sort of like the idea that, in RT, you MIGHT have a setup where there is an older guy, whose got the Warrant someplace, and the Rogue Trader on the ship (the player) is empowered by him, to act in his name, and this helps him (the NPC) get access to multiple site of value, simultaneously. It always seemed weird that on every RT vessel, there is a guy given a Warrant, and nigh-limitless power. I kind of like how they could have a wide-reaching web of acquisition, and not have the center be right there on the ship. I know it's the point of the show, but oh well... Also, it could help with one thing i might see as a problem in RT; the players being able to flip the GM off. I see it thus; the players go to a place, looking for money/treasure, and find a big haul, Then, something terrible happens on the way to getting to it, and they (the players) decide to wave it off, and run away, figuring it's not worth dying. At that point, the GM has put the work into readying that, and then it's crap, and they need to come up with something else. A cautious Rogue Trader, who doesn't answer to anyone else, doesn't HAVE to commit to the story, they can leave well enough alone, and find easier money. IN DH, the Inquisition expects things of you, and punishes you for failure. IN DW, you are indoctrinated to serve as a Space Marine, and have strong, built-in compulsions to accomplish missions given, but RT is often treasure-hunting, and has little oversight, so it could suck that way, If there was a senior RT over the players, though (sort of like the Inquisitor), then they could have a bit more incentive to not run away when the going gets tough.

In Lure of the Expanse one of the sample NPC "Rogue Traders" is just this. Abel Gerrit does not bear the Warrant of his house, but is in the Expanse to look for business opportunity for them. I see no reason a PC couldn't do the very same.

In fact, in many ways this would make more sense than the sometimes cobbled together excuses for why a starting RT only has one ship.

The book never states that the Rogue Trader only has 1 ship in his dynasty. I don't think it even states that he can only start with one ship either. If you pick the 70 points for a ship, you can get two really crappy transport ships (or a frigate type ship in the supplement books) for a combined price of around 70 one you purchase weapons and such. Anyhoot, who's to say that there aren't other ships in the Rogue Trader's dynasty, in other parts of the galaxy/universe, supplying the Rogue Trader his current profit rating? Mind you, these ships should be way less in power and skill then the current Rogue Trader's ship, and not amount to much other than to add a story and flavor to a RT's background. Just food for thought. I might have made a GM call to allow my players to purchase more than one ship too, going against the published rules, but ohh well. It's all about having fun. ;-)

@venkelos

sorry for my bad english, I see your problem but from an other angle... in DH I often thought that the Inquisitor has to be an PC, cause we´ve all read Ravenor and Eisenhorn , there are personal vendettas, targets the inquisitor hunts and investigates and i had often the feeling its all to unpersonal for the PC´s cause the inquisitor says jump, and the accolythes asked how high....it´s like bad shadowrunning forced by rulez. To play a mere grunt in WH40k doesn´t makes sense for me... Perhaps in the Imperial Army but not as an Member of the Inquisition!

In RT you can make your own fortune, I really like the system of endeavours, i think a crossover to BC should be very satisfying, z the only thing I don´t like is the Character Creation. But I see this the same way like you, the Rogue trader Character should have been a young captain in a Rogue Trader Dynasty (what he is i think) and not the only keeper of his house, there should be someone who´s pulling the strings. I think it´s more satisfiing to let the Gamemaster say " travel to Achernar and take over the Grox-Dealing" than " go to Fenk, find the Heretek, fight the demon and die, so what..." But I don´t understand why your PLAYERS would leave Achernar cause a chaos driven cult attacks them, and they say "uups resistance, lets find a place where some xenos embracing the LoveGod will give us tons of gold"

But I think RT gives you much more freedom than DH, so do what you wanna do!

In my version of the universe, almost all Rogue Trader dynasties maintain widespread holdings and fleets. The holder of the Warrant of Trade usually has a personal flagship, but may not really be on the leading edge of the dynasty's active operations. For these, there are the vassals. The greatest of the vassals are the various Lord-Captains of the vessels that make up the fleet. These Lord-Captains act as the personal hands of the head of the dynasty, and wield immense power but they do ultimately draw their authority from the dynasty. Usually, several other senior officers on the ships are vassals of the dynasty too (although they do not need to be, some are simply allies). Senior crew members that are part of other organizations - like the Ecclesiarchy, Navis Nobilite, and the Adeptus Mechanicus - most usually are not members of the dynasty but are instead allies. Because of the complexities of the feudal ties within the vassals of a dyansty and the various allies of the dynasty, the overall politics of any given Lord-Captain's vessel can be quite intense.

I find that this arrangement makes for a more interesting command crew for player characters and also easily allows for vast dynasties without saddling PCs with numerous ships from the start. With this model, having a Transport or Raider for a ship doesn't seem so odd for a RT since a large fleet is made up of many types of vessels. It also removes the "I am the ultimate authority here" card from the Rogue Trader PC (who will be a Lord-Captain vassal of the dynasty), and plays more to the style my players enjoy.

Happy's take is really similar to my own. This explanation better helps set the RT crew as like powered individuals rather then an an emplyoer and all others. Now while the captain might bear final responsibility for the safety and profit of the ship he has a reason to not make decisions unilaterally rather then just being nice.

This is sort of the perspective I would use, too, and I like the sound of it. One of the big worries I have kind of had, for being a GM in Rogue Trader is that of actually making the party do something. If the point is to make money, then they would try to go places where there is loot, but if the looting became too dangerous, then they could just flee at the first opportunity, and say "f this, let's go find something easier. We'll come back here later, maybe", and live to spend the loot they already possessed. If the RT is the ultimate authority of his/her, and the party's destiny, answering to no one save their desire for more Profit Factor, then there's no harm in running away, and the GM could find it difficult to keep them in the locales that they have fabricated for the adventure. Acolytes aren't likely to run away, and say to their Inquisitor "we're sorry, but it was just too hard, and scary "; their benefactor would be likely to go commissar on their asses, while Space Marines wouldn't care about the fear, because they have to follow orders given by their superior, so they'd stay, but the RT could just dodge from place to place, and not let the GM tell any story. If they have to answer to a senior RT, sort of their distant "Lord Admiral", and if he can cut them off, financially, and/or reclaim their ship, if they don't make him some wealth, then they have a vested interest to risk their necks for wealth, and make good for their liege. It also allows me to have one of my favorite Influence talents in RT, Ear of the Lord Sector. If the starting group had PF 50, then the Dynasty could still have PF 100, and the party's actions could raise both, aiding the Dynasty, and increasing their "allowance", or the level cap of the Dynasty PF they are allowed to use, as they prove their character. If they had a really big purchase, or some such, then their liege could let them use his, like the talent, but at some cost. This all pleases me. If only my friends wanted to play RT.

Allow me to put forth a different perspective. The fluff tends to hint strongly towards the position of RT being very hands-on. The whole idea of a RT is for a thrusting entrepreneur to go forth and conquer in the Emperor’s name. Many warrants IMO suggest the RT must personally do stuff to make it legally stick…like be the first on the bridge to claim a ship or be the first to touch ground of a new planet etc.

Being a wealthy spider in a web doesn’t seem to match the position and intent of RT’s and neither are there examples I know of that suggest they exist. All the RT’s in the published core book and supplements tend to be ruthless and enterprising types. Think privateers rather then merchants and bankers who underwrite cargos and exploration trips. And once the RT becomes too feeble to meet the requirements of personal action in the warrant, he must pass on the warrant or it will lapse which means he will likely be forcibly retired by ambitious heirs. Thus the Imperium always has effective RT’s rather than feeble old men clinging on to warrants without really pushing the boundaries of the Imperium which is what they are supposed to do in their own way.

All this might have been done to ‘force’ players to acts of derring-do rather than simply deploy regiments of house troops and squadrons of escorts to solve problems but it works rather nicely in that RT’s are thus men of action, always out for the next score rather than wise, calculating types located safely in mansions sending out their minions to bring back wealth.

A second point I’d like to raise is the importance of that warrant. If anybody could (legally) do what a RT can, why would they be so valuable? Sure, an RT can send out minions but any legal claim has to be done by himself I’d think, much like with an inquisitor and his acolytes. Yes, the inquisitor can pass on some of his authority but when his acolytes are faced with an equally powerful peer, the acolyte can wave his miniature seal all he wants, he won’t get very far and has to fetch the inquisitor to deal with it personally. Might makes right beyond the borders but if you want to trade within the borders of the Imperium, every i had better be dotted properly.

Abel Gerrit is a good example. He represents his house but isn’t a RT in his own right. Which is why he carries 2 swords to answer any challenges to his position because legally it’s weak.

Your suggestion that your team of not so intrepid adventurers might not stick around if things get too dangerous and thus need a boogeyman in the form of a RT in the background is something that can be dealt with within your campaign. Many of the supplements suggest special and valuable loot that is only available to the most daring, e.g. the one who gets there first. Waiting for things to be safe etc. only allows your players to scavenge leftovers. Let them feel it in their profit factors and their standing in the Koronus Expanse as yellow bellied wannabe’s only willing to do milk runs…RT is a game of adventure & derring-do, Pirates in Space. Life fast and die young. Or retire with a peg-leg, an eye patch, a hook and a chest of gold and jewels if you survive. If that does not appeal to them, perhaps the setting is not for them?

Is players running away from endeavours a common problem? Even the players I've had who don't make their characters into Indiana Jones or Duke Nukem tend to be too foolhardy for their own good if anything... then again, maybe I've just been lucky.

To answer the OP's question - sure, why not? There's basically no law in in the Koronus Expanse except for what you make for yourself, so if you can count on the backing of your RT, I don't see why you couldn't break off from the main fleet and pursue business opportunities on your own.

I'm not saying I've ever had a party run, more just that, as a game, I personally see Rogue Trader as one where the players could, potentially, toss their GM a total curve ball, since the only thing keeping the players on track is their own greed. In Deathwatch, the players are Space Marines, trained/indoctrinated, and looking for glory, knowing that, if they can't handle a problem, it's likely no one else can, and they are under orders. Dark Heresy has some hair-raising moments, but the players can't just run away, more than likely, because their master, an Inquisitor, will likely kill them (maybe not, but they might think that). Rogue Trader, on the other hand, doesn't seem to have that. If my players aren't the MOST greedy people, they might choose to say "nah, let's get some easier loot", and walk away from the great labyrinth, fill with treasure and terror. It's more something I could see players doing, rather than actual Rogue Traders, but it's something I thought of. While the other systems have a "supervisory" NPC element (the Inquisitor and the Watch Commander, respectively), each Rogue Trader seems to be their own lord and master, meaning they don't HAVE to make more money, or risk every Space Hulk, because they don't owe anyone else anything. They don't have to pay the Imperium every so often, or bring a certain amount of new territory under the umbrella, or risk losing their Warrant; once they are given it, they basically got a free ship, crew, and the right to just go do whatever they want. I just thought it could be nice to have that in there, having a higher-placed person who they occasionally have to answer to, and who can make them have to go into hell, after the GM has planned up everything, and would really rather not have the players develop cold feet.

In some ways, I sort of see a high-end Rogue Trader as variant Lord of Terra (no, they aren't, I know that). In the same way, they become an individual possessant of great power, wielding authority in many more places than they could be at one time, having resources everywhere, and agents taking care of their distant assets, such as running worlds they have claimed, or sites where resources are collected, while they, themselves, go to the crazy places, earning more Profit Factor. In my fanfic work, I have an elder Trader, and he has been at it for a very long time. He has connections everywhere, loads of money, and has withdrawn from much of the front line work, sending his emissaries all over, and watching them, hoping one will prove worthy of inheriting his Warrant. Korvallus (that's his last name) can be found, managing much of the business aspect of his Dynasty, the Silver Ravens, from his star base, orbiting an agri-world he owns. His lieutenants do much of the "Rogue Trader" work, under his name, and he keeps tabs on them, sending them to various places where resources or mysteries might be lucrative, found by his contacts network, and if one of them can perform a certain list of them (they don't know what all is on it, but some are hair-raising, and one is even one he COULDN'T manage), he will pass on the Warrant to them. With this setup, it would give me a bit of a GM character/character network to be involved in what the party is doing, and with the amount of resources the overall Dynasty has, it's something for the players to strive to achieve. It was a thought I had, anyway.

Actually Rogue Traders might have stipulations placed on their warrant and I actually do presume they pay taxes and tethes to the imperium. But more then that when a Rogue Trader embarks on their voyage their sinking massive amount sof capital into making it happen on the expectation of getting more wealth. If they run from too many fights you might start to hit them with the affects of stretched profit factor or otherwise as their having to lay out funds for provisions and consumables with little actual return.

Now i'll admit it is very nice as a GM to have a higher authority to be able to plant the players firmly on the tracks once in a great while, but even then you should do this sparingly.

My background is a Shadowrun GM, a game that is even more greed centric then RT. I always advise people when asked for similar situations to work botha s a GM and with their players to find reasons for their PC's to be personally invested in the situation at hand. If not having a personal stake in the mission then to have a driving reason to want to acquire more wealth beyond just a means of keeping score. For example, if your dynasty or family has been wronged by another Rogue Trader or other powerful individual gathering the needed resources for vengance, justice, or just to be free of the reach of their enemies.

I can see where you are coming from. I've done mostly D&D, other d20s, Star Wars, and some White Wolf, before their crappy (IMO) reset, and many of those games often start with the classic "your group is sitting in the tavern, having a drink when you are approached by a man", or "you received a message to be in the King's chambers/Senator's office at just after dawn/7am, tomorrow morning, to discuss a venture that could change their lives forever." This gave me, as the GM, a framework to line my players up in, or, as a player, people to make money/fame from. Deathwatch and Dark Heresy seem similar, based on my reading of the multitude of books from the lines I have, where your Watch Commander, or your master Inquisitor tell you to go, and you don't say "but I don't wanna", and go. Rogue Trader just sort of stuck out as the odd one, where the players are, uncharacteristically, the masters of their own destiny, not beholden to any king, government, or law but themselves (while they are out in the boonies, anyway), and if they have enough PF to roll to acquire a decent ship, one of the spendiest things in the galaxy, and don't feel that they need another one, then they can be sitting on a nice horde, not worrying about being stretched too thin. They go where they want, and if things look to risky (and my friends are more likely to err on the side of "we didn't get all this by taking stupid risks", rather than "we didn't get all this way without taking some stupid risks, and they panned out, so let's do it again, because the Emperor is obviously with us."

Even in Shadowrun, which I only played once (and we, as a group, sucked at it ), we took jobs from corps or gangs, and they paid us mucho moola to do their dirty work. If we didn't succeed, we were likely to get liquidated, since our employers were rather cutthroat. I sort of miss that game, though, as I was the Decker, and with that class almost being its own game, we did some inventive stuff to keep me in the "real world". In RT, though, you are the boss, the employer, and far away from anyone who can tell you what to do (or you think so, till an Inquisitor shows up, and his plasma pistol is as effective as his rosette). As i haven't played RT, I just wasn't sure what would keep the players, who in my case would be not as knowledgeable of 40k, and coming from more guided games (the above) going into all the worst places, if they don't really think they need that much more money. It might just show my own lack of knowledge in this area, something I'm none to happy about, liking 40k as much as I do.

I suspect you might be looking for a solution to a problem you might not have, at some level the players have to concede that their interested in playing "the game", for Rogue Trader it's best if they understand ahead of time that said game involves playing very driven individuals as part of a Rogue Trader dynasty, brave and bold individuals who are prone to taking risks to amass literally obscene amounts of money. Hopefully they will just get it and go with the flow.

If not there's a matter of "painting the rails" while they have absolute freedom to go out and explore make it clear to them that opportunities don't just fall out of the sky, there are a lot of Rogue Traders out there and any jobs they don't take another RT house might already have snapped up. Plus if they seem cowardly in their dealing other Rogue Traders and the Imperium as a whole as well as their other less then legal business contacts might look down on them. They have a brand to uphold after all.

The other issue is you or whoever GM's for you should feel free to present ot your players a number of options ahead of time and have them select the ones that their most interested. I'll paste in the endeavors I've given my players the option of over the past week. I'm going to warn you ahead of time I banged this out early in the morning after a long night at game then a first day at work. Having them pick an endeavor ahead of time gives them freedom to choose their path but preserves my sanity a bit by allowing me a idea ahead of time of what they want. Once they've engaged in an endeavor their way out at the back end of nowhere are will likely want to do what they can before they jump back to the warp with their tails between their legs. Likewise nobody (at least among the RT set) likely knowingly wants to throw down with Necrons or a Tyranid Splinter fleet. But sometimes what was supposed to be a simple exploitable planet has genestealers on it, and now their between you and your guncutter.

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Endeavors:

Excavation on Magoros Primus :

Simple Endeavor +2 Profit Factor (presuming the star mirror is recovered intact)

Wealthy Collectors amongst the cult of mechanicus or bored imperial nobility, might be interested in xenos curiousities recovered from Magoros Primus particularly the star mirror. The plus to this of course is you can lay the ground work for this before leaving the sector and gather the materials needed in the course of other business. The downside is of course that such trade is illegal inside the imperium but that's part of what makes it so profitable.

Objective One: Further Exploration(Exploration, Military)

A more detailed survey of the planet and the hive surrounding the star mirror must be conducted including a mission to assess the local ork threat.

Objective Two: Hire specialists in xeno archeology.(Trade)

Specialist in recovery of xenos technology and artifacts must be gathered as well as common laborer's able to perform the grunt labor of the extraction. These specialists could be hired in a number of places, the breaking yards, footfall, and port wander are all convenient and may be your next goal.

Objective Three: Protect the dig site.

The increased activity at the dig site will undoubtedly draw the attentions of the local feral ork tribes. The site must be defended and the xeno treasure hunters safety provided for if the endeaver is to succeed.

Optional Objective Four: Find a better buyer(Criminal)

While the goods could be offloaded for easy money on footfall where they will eventually be sold and sold again by other parties before winding up in someones collection you could cut out the middleman by taking the artifacts into the calixis sector yourself and therefore reap greater profits (possibly doubling profit factor if not more) this will at minimum require evading naval and customs patrols and then delicately exploring both the underworld and the nobility for potential buyers. The risks are considerable but there is a chance of both making more profit but also potential contacts for the future.

Privateer Campaign against Pirates

Greater Endeavor +4 Profit Factor

Privateering is an honorable yet risky business. Normally you pick your targets based on them having something you want that you can then take from them under color of law. The paradoxical problem with doing this against pirates is it's really only worth taking on the successful ones, who in turn are good at what they by being dangerous and elusive to fight.

The first two objective are interchangeable

Secure a Benefactor:(Military, Possibly Creed)

Pirate hunting involves a lot of risks as said above so it's better to have another organization to cover costs on it. Likewise the sort of organizations that need this kind of services have delicate sensibilities and arn't likely to want to ask for help or hire third parties unless approached in the right way. The Eclesiarchy, Administatum, and Imperial Navy.

Gather Intel(Exploration, Criminal)

If pirate hunting were just matter of plotting a course, running the scanners, and firing the guns the Navy would have it all locked up by lunch time. As it stands though solid intelligence must be gathered on pirate activities as well as the activities of their prey in order to predict where they will strike in order to strike back. Locations where voidsmen, especially renegade ones must be looked in order to wrest their secrets.

Strike a Definitive Blow Against the Pirates(Military)

To satisfy your backers for the operation you'll need to perform a grand enough action to put an appreciable dent in pirate activity, even if only in a localized area or trade lane. This will involve confronting and destroying a pirate flotila either piecemeal or as a group or destroying a local pirate base of operations.

Convoy and Trading

Greater Endeavor: +4 Profit Factor

Though not as glamorous as other activities there is Gelt to be made making sure goods get out of the kronous expanse.

Objective 1: Negotiate a Contract(Trade and/or Criminal)

A world must be contacted on either side of the maw that has things that the other wants. Negotiations must be entered into and the parties must seal the deal.

Objective 2: Protecting the principal

Since ancient times even on Holy Terra merchants and trader have had to contend with people wanting to take their ****, hostile competition, and just problems associated with the journey. You will be know different.

Meta Endeavor Stuff:

Establish a base of Operations – As your power and fleet grows you'll need a more stable seat of power to conduct business from and perform your own repairs. A base should be looked into and got up and running. While this will not actually increase your profit factor much (in fact the expense of such things might decrease it) the benefits of having your own repair, refit, and recruiting facilities should be obvious.

Reclaiming What is Ours:

Somewhere out there you know there's a good sized bubble empire that you can rightfully steal from someone. Though this will be a multistage process that will involve both a military campaign and possibly either inciting the locals to turn on their masters or raising a minor crusade of the faithful to come help you the task itself is the sort of thing that legends are forged of.

I've found that RT is more player driven than GM driven. All you have to do is ask them what they want to do then let them do it. It represents a good bit of on the spot thinking before you can get to the preparation part. The Sandbox is a bit of an illusion, as a GM with enough creativity can get whatever plot he has planned to go forward no matter what the players eventually decide.

Larkin said:

I agree with the quote above. While RT is more player driven than other RPGs they are still getting the information they base their decisions on from the GM. I have yet to run a campaign but one of the things I look forward to is the challenge of running a game where the players have so much freedom to do what they want. It scares me a bit but I can't wait to run a campaign to see how I handle it.

I think RT is all about acquiring power. Profit factor is a tool used to gain power but it's not the only one. I think the reputation you make for yourself plays a pretty big role. How you make your fortune- are you honorable or less than so? What does your crew say about you when at port? There are plenty of things that help a RT gain the power and prestige they want. The cool thing is the players decide how they achieve their goals.

The other thing that appeals to me is the difference in scale compared to other RPGs. Instead of dealing with individuals you deal with entire planets. Battles can be fought with armies instead of groups, and the list goes on. RT starts where most other RPGs end. In most games once you gain power and prestige you retire. In RT you start out with some power and it's up to the group how they build upon that power.

I have talked with my group about the game. If they weren't interested with the premise of the game I wouldn't even attempt to run it for them. I think it could be alot of fun but only if a group is prepared to run with it. If my group ever gets around to getting a campaign together I'll let you guys know how it goes!