I asked this on the Dark Heresy forum and to my surprise the answer seems to be noone, so I'll try here.

Does anyone use BC as a chaos sourcebook for Dark Heresy? If so does it replace all the stuff from books like Disciples of the Dark Gods, etc?

It doesn't replace anything from Disciples of the Dark Gods, except for more detailed daemon weapon rules, rituals and a different take on sorcery/psychic powers. It's a diffeent system, and isn't really too compatible unless you're prepared to sit down and do some work in order to make the two system work together. It is a fantastic source for insight into how the existence of heretics is played out, just like disciples, and i'd say that the two books are very good. They complement each other nicely. The combat system and classless progression from Black Crusade is much better than the system from Dark Heresy imo, but it's very tied into playing heretics dedicated to the Dark Gods, and will require lots of work if you want to use it with playing anything else.

That's a little disappointing. I was hoping the chaos sorcery, demons and stuff I could use/create with BC i could use as adversaries in DH.

signoftheserpent said:

You can certainly do that, but not as a replacement for DotDG or RH, rather as yet another Chaos supplement.

The biggest difficulty is deciding which base rules to use.

I don't really understand what the differences are.

They are fundamentally different and too numerous to list here, so your best bet is to read the books for yourself and decide what to use.

Jackal_Strain said:

I have only just brought DH, I have been collecting the 40k games for the best part of the last 6 months. When I get the chance I will certainly run them (that's after all the point). But i have only just got around to buying DH itself. I have BC.

I must admit that I'm a little confused about what you are asking for. Do want to run BC or DH or do you want to use BC as a sourcebook for DH? Are you asking if you can run both games at the same time?

Jackal_Strain said:

If possible yes. It would seem, on the face of it, rather redundant to otherwise have to buy books like DotDG.

BC and DotDG contains vastly different things. BC details the Screaming Vortex and gives a general introduction to the rest of the setting while DotDG contains information on various heretical, xeno, and daemonic/chaotic cults/threats within the Calixis sector. I'd say that DotDG is a valuable tome for both DH and BC games.

Jackal_Strain said:

There would not be an issue using the two from the books as long as you knew what rules for psyker stuff you wanted to use. Otherwise, it all meshes nicely...BC seems much more streamlined mechanically, so I would go with that for your DH game ( referencing things like toxin, other weapon mechanics, and skill tests make much more sense in BC.)

signoftheserpent said:

If you're interested in using NPCs, that should be OK. Just bear in mind the differences between the systems and decide how to adjudicate them. Using your Dark Eldar example, you have to decide what to do with their greater speed in BC.

Using psionics is much trickier, because while you theoretically could cross-reference them in the sense that DH psykers have all the mechanical traits needed to use BC psychic powers, they are made for two vastly different systems, and balanced for different power levels (or, in the case of DH, not balanced at all - seriously, how can anyone still use those sh*tty rules?).

All in all, despite all the similarities between the two games, they are still different, separate games, and you can't hope to integrate them seamlessly.

"Is Black Crusade a substitude for Disciples?"

Definitely not! Disciples is a book about Chaos cults, Heresy, Heretek, Xeno conspiracies, hidden machinations within the Imperium and other great story ideas for the Calixis Sector, and in my humble opinion one of the very best supplements ever released. If you want to run a DH game, not buying DotDG would be a shame.

Dok Martin said:

signoftheserpent said:

Sure you can. But if your goal is to present your DH characters with proper challenges, DotDG beats BC fair and square.

what do you mean by a proper challenge?

signoftheserpent said:

I mean an interesting, fleshed out opponent/group of opponents that's interesting for DH characters to hunt down and/or face in combat. If you can provide it yourself, that's great, but then you don't really need BC because you have all the rules you need to make custom heretics right there in the DH core. DotDG, on the other hand, is a book full of inspirations, ideas already fleshed out, and tons of weird crap statted out. BC is very bland compared to that, and the few new rules that could add something to your homemade antagonists aren't really worth it.

If you actually want to play as Heretics, or just take your 40k RPG to a new level with streamlined, re-adjusted rules that in my experience provide for a vastly better gaming experience, yeah, BC is great. If you hope it will pull double duty as an antagonist book for DH, you'll be disappointed.

I want to run a DH game. This is because i don't have enough players to make RT work and i don't want to run DW first (due to the added complexity).

I'd love to own all the DH books as i'm working to collect all of them for each game, but I don't want to wait until then to run it. I figured BC might fill some holes.

signoftheserpent said:

I understand your problems, I'm not very rich myself. But seriously, BC will fare rather poorly as a Chaos antagonists sourcebook for DH (while still being a totally awesome game in it's own right, and one I'd personally rather play over DH any time). When it comes to antagonists, DH has the best sourcebooks in all 40k RPG in the form of Creatures Anathema and Disciples, both awesome reads and filled to the brim with good story hooks. You won't find the same things in BC, which is more concerned with describing Chaos on it's own turf than it's insidious tentacles holding the Imperium in an ever-tightening grip.

How familiar in general are you with the 40k setting? Because if you have a good grasp on it, you don't really need either of the books to run Chaos antagonists, and may just invest in BC for the sake of having a shiny new game on the shelf, but if you're new to the show, Disciples is much better in showcasing the parts of Chaos that make it an interesting antagonist for the Inquisition.

Also, at the risk of going off-topic, why do you think RT requires more players to work?

Morangias said:

I'm talking about 2 players which I don't think is really enough for RT. I think you need a couple more to have a decent representation of a trader crew + captain.

signoftheserpent said:

signoftheserpent said:

In that case, like I said before, you may want to just purchase BC to possess and play BC - and like I said, unless you're strongly against playing Chaos, you should find this game great. It's still mediocre at best as an antagonist sourcebook, though.

signoftheserpent said:

Considering the smallest RT crews still number in thousands, I don't think there's much difference between having two most important guys handled by players or having five-six most important guys handled by players. And the PCs in this game are assumed to be not so much part of the crew as RT's personal posse of best and most trusted associates, which may but need not coincide with any particular duties on-ship (though when it does, it's automatically assumed the PC is top dog in whatever field). One supplement, Into the Storm I think, delves into the details of officer positions on Imperial vessels, and the players can pick whatever they like. The rest is assumed to be handled by NPCs.

My point being, it's natural for RT that you either take a very abstract stance towards ship life, or have to introduce many NPCs to handle crew interactions, so don't let that discourage you from running this great game.

Reverend mort said:

And, again, it is my opinion that 2 people isn't going to do the setting justice.

I'd say that for the pure mechanics and mutations (especially the mutations!) of adversaries, you can do a lot worse than BC. Yes, you can get a lot of inspiration from DotDG, but if you're content with homebrewing your conspiracies (or just don't trust your players to not sneek a peek - and I know one who generally goes "Ooo! Ooo! That's the Enlightened Fraternity of the Mushroom Farmers! This is gonna be sooo cool! We'll get to see their drill tanks! And their fungus mutants!" as soon as the first cryptic hint is dropped...), you can leave it out too.