Exactly what it says on the tin really....how much would the starting Deathwatch talents, and access to the advancement tables be worth (the skills you can pretty much work out) in xp?

I ask as I'm thinking of including a non-Deathwatch Space Marine PC in our game (which is a mixed Deathwatch/Ascended Dark Heresy thing) and was going to try to retcon him from the DW creation rules.

Nerd King said:

A Deathwatch character is 13000 xp and that is with his starting 1000 xp to spend.

andrewm9 said:

I know that - what I mean is how much XP would they be WITHOUT the Deathwatch "bitz" (the hypnoconditioning, the Deathwatch Training Talent and access to the Deathwatch Advancement tables)? What are just those basic advancements worth?

Imagine "Deathwatch" is an Alternate Srecialisation (like the ones in Rites of Battle) - How much would it be worth?

I'd say 13k XP still... 12k if I were generous. The Astartes will still be horrifically powered compared to pretty much anyone else in combat, so doesn't need addition XP to 'balance'.

Nerd King said:

the only thing they really receive as a result fo Deathwatch training is Forbidden Lore (Xenos) and Common Lore (Deathwatch). Everythign else is pretty much normal space marine stuff. I wouldn't say its worth all that much. Maybe a few hundred. I agree with Siranui though. Just keep it at 13000 if you are planning on mixing up the stuff. DW Space Marines are pretty awesome. They have fabulous stats compared to other classes from other games. If I paid for all those advances most DH classes would pay around 6 to 7 thousand just for the difference between starting stats

This is one of those situations where the seemingly redundant entries on the advance list can have some kind of use. the things that are on the list total 5600 xp worth. the other 6400 still won't reasonably cover the 3 skills 13 talents and 2 traits since that's only enough for 350 each. not counting the better base stats.

the vast majority of what is on the list is basic implantation and training. you could easily drop the 600 from the 2 skills that are from the deathwatch advance table and the deathwatch training talent I'd probably put at around 500 xp. as for the 'value' of access to the deathwatch table I'd probably make it somewhat small. say 400 to bring the total 'savings' for non deathwatch to 1500 so depending on how little extra xp they have to spend then 10,500 minimum 'basic' space marine. I'd probably call it 11,000xp 500 of that spent however you want. still waaaay over the power level of anything else starting.

Most of the XP is in the unnatural stats, each one is worth 1k or more, if you compare to Ascension.

not to mention the 'value' of Astartes Weapon Training is way more than just a simple talent.

The Deathwatch specific advances as I can tell are the skills of Common Lore: Deathwatch (200xp), Forbidden Lore: Xenos (400xp) and the talent Deathwatch Training (no listed cost, but I'd say 400xp, just to round it out to an even 1000xp.)

Also FWIW, I wouldn't count anything extra for the lack of access to the Deathwatch advancement tables, but if you really feel that should count for something, call it another 500xp.

So if the PC is supposed to be similar rank to the DW people, and you're just trying to show he's not DW, I'd do as Beyond suggests and take off those talents/skills and give him 1,000 or so xp to work with so he could pick other things.

I'm assuming here that he's simply integrating into a group of Ascended and DW characters already, right?

standard marines in BC are like 8.5k so id say probably around 2.5-3k.

also count the wounds above them you are, yes diffrent systems but their based in the same idea so the scale should be roughly similar.

The Marines in BC are kinda, to use a loaded word, "nerfed". They try to explain it in various ways, but a lot of it is simply balance concerns.