Hey, all.

So... When playing against Shub Niggurath.... do monster trophies get the +1 to toughness bonus???

I play it as no, for two reasons:

1) A monster trophy is no longer a 'monster'.

2) Doesn't benefit Investigators, which is always good.

This is by no means official though, in fact it's likely the opposite, seeing as 1 is just an absurd technicality.

Yes...it goes both ways though, for example you defeat a Dhole you Red-Sighn will only count as 2 thoughness.

From the official FAQ:

Q: When spending monster trophies, do you count any
modifiers to toughness currently in effect?
A: Yes, use the modified toughness. This bonus applies to
the use of any monster trophies spent at any location.

The official FAQ states that any toughness modifier for monsters will allways be applied. When you trade in your monster trophies their stamina would also be increased.

The Message said:

Technically those are the rules, and they do get +1 even as trophies.

And why? monster trophies are an ingame experiance just lika a RPG, and your character flutters around with a santa claus like bag and keeps saying "look at all the nasty things I killed", the +1 basically says "My black goat is bigger than yours".

I need to to look at this darn FAQ.

Doesn't Red Sign say "until the end of this combat?" Eh, I don't feel like looking.

Thanks, guys!

MrsGamura said:

I've never heard this before. I'm not so sure if that's correct.

We usually play it that all and only universal bonus's are considered when spending trophies.

For example if you kill 3 cultests (tough 1) and later an environment comes into play saying "All cultests have their toughness raised by 2"

then till a new environment comes into play your cultests are worth 3 each for a total of 9.

Ok, I concede in the face of obviously being wrong, hehe. However, the Red Sign ruling seems a bit extreme, honestly.

The Red Sign only lasts until the end of combat:

www.arkhamhorrorwiki.com/Red_Sign_of_Shudde_M%27ell

However, that being the case, if you had something trigger based on you killing a monster with 2 toughness (can't recall anything tha does that right now), then the Dhole would count if you killed it with the Red Sign. While it was being taken as a trophy, it still only has 2 Toughness. At the end of combat though, the Dhole's trophy reverts back to being worth 3 Toughness.

-Frank

In addition, I used to play that the trophy was worth its toughness when you killed it. So if you killed cultist (one toughness), and then the Great Ritual environment comes out (+1 toughness to cultists and byakhee), the trophy would still be worth only 1.

I stopped doing this because it became hard to track. Plus, it's kind of fun to see your monster trophies' value appreciate and depreciate when different environments come out :-P

allstar64 said:

I jut count their toughness at the time of defeat...I don't see you dead cultist growing more meatier after their dead.

The extra or lack of toughness on the trophy is what it says, "Hey my Dark Young was harder to kill that your little puny Dark Young...True but I cast Red-Sighn to make it easier to beat!"

Yes, but when you trade it in, it's what it's worth to the recipient. A cultist you killed at toughness 1 may be worth toughness-2 to the guy at the River Docks during the Great Ritual because he has more interest in Cultists due to their activity.

Red Sign of Shudde M'ell just helps you kill the monster. It wasn't less tough! You still had to dedicate a hand to the Red Sign.

MrsGamura said:

Obviously, this is fine if you houserule it. But the official rule is that they are worth whatever the current situation says it is worth. There is no mechanism to keep track of what the value of toughness points were at the time you bagged the monster. So don't coimplicate matters by adding another level of administrative work.

Think of it this way, they haven't gotten more meatier, as you say. It is like dealing in stocks. The value changes over time and may be worth more or less than it was when you first got it.

that my first house rule then...

buyer ~"Hey brother sorry but the going rate of a dead cultist is 1 buck not 3"

seller ~"but when I killed him his toughness was 3!"

buyer ~"I don't make the rules Wall Street does"

I use a blood droplet as a marker.