Ork technology (teknalugy?) doesn't work in "non-Ork" ships. I'm planning on giving my crew an Ork Mekboy as opposed to a Tech-Priest Majoris, it will command a crew of fledgling engineers, possibly heretechs. I'm wondering if it would be out of line to give the ship a couple Ork Ship Upgrades, such as the Bigger Red Button and Grot Holes. Are there any hard and fast rules that constitute and "Ork ship"?
A single ork doesn't make Orky Tech Components work. Orky Tech Components work because of the Waaagh! psychic field several thousands of orks produce.
I'd say no. Unless a player is playing the mech. Rule of Cool.
Grots are, if I'm not mistaken, a type of Ork. The upgrade Grot Holes would infest the ship with hundreds, if not thousands, of Grots that could provide enough psychic energy to power any components.
Ale Golem said:
Grots are, if I'm not mistaken, a type of Ork. The upgrade Grot Holes would infest the ship with hundreds, if not thousands, of Grots that could provide enough psychic energy to power any components.
Orks are Orkoids, but not all Orkoids are Orks. The description of the Waaagh! Field only talks about Orks, so it doesn't seem to include any other greenskin. I doubt lesser Orkoids are enough powerful to actually generate the Psychic Field, but I may be wrong.
EDIT:
Where is the Grot Hole upgrade, by the way?
Could anyone point me to a description of the Waaagh! Field and Orks in general? I'm not trying to be a pain about this but I really don't know much about the 40K universe and searches online mostly pull info on minis and painting as opposed to fluff. Since I'm running the game I know I could just hand wave the whole issue but I like to have decent backup from the books when possible. I may just stick to the organic upgrades, Grot Holes and Squig Pens.
Maese Mateo said:
Battlefleet Koronus, page 77.
I left you a link on my first post on this thread. The Lexicanum is a great source of information about the Warhammer 40k universe.
I missed that, thank you.
Ale Golem said:
I missed that, thank you.
You are welcome! =)
I started with Rogue Trader six months ago so I know how difficult can it be to understand the whole WH 40K setting.
Orks in the crew? Hmm... Make me want to get an Eldar collector historian on a ship, one who is knowledgeable of many ruins, and likes to get stuff, and catalog it. He might even slightly Eldar up my ship (runecaster, or something)
As for Orky tek, what do they have that's good enough to want to use it? Orks have the IQ of a slightly rotten potato, and most of their stuff is as likely to explode as work, in the fluff. What were you thinking of getting, that your next trip back to Imperial space won't get you shot at by the Battlefleet? Even Rogue Traders are limited in how much they can cavort with certain xenos. Just curious.
venkelos said:
Orks aren't all stupid, some have down right genius level intellect. They just think in a very one dimensional pattern and due to the Waaagh! their technological advances don't necessarily have to make physical or theoretical sense. Right now I'm looking at Grot holes,Squig pens, a bigger red button and, of course, a red paint job. Imperial space isn't a necessity for a Rogue Trader game, there's plenty of back water space stations and unscrupulous traders whom will deal with anyone providing money or services. You're also forgetting the Sanctioned Xenos trait from Into The Storm, which in this instance will simply be a large piece of flash with "Sanktchunned Ze Nose" stamped into it that the Ork will wear around his neck.
Ale Golem said:
Orks aren't all stupid, some have down right genius level intellect. They just think in a very one dimensional pattern and due to the Waaagh! their technological advances don't necessarily have to make physical or theoretical sense.
It's true. I just like to overgeneralize with Orks; I don't expect the bulk of them to notice that I did.
Mostly, it's just that so much of their stuff simply is because they're Orks, I often like to give them crap for being dumb as stumps, and about as accurate with a gun. Their ships aren't faster because of some amazing breakthrough they figured out in drives, but because most of them are so stupid they think a red paint job makes it go faster, and because enough Orks believe it, their gestalt psychic link makes it so. Sure, there are a few smart ones, but it's easy for me, and a bit fun, to just say "all Orks are stupid." The fact that I'm wrong fails to bother me, until their army pwns me it TTop, or if I ever play this, and an Ork kills me.
Ale Golem said:
Right now I'm looking at Grot holes,Squig pens, a bigger red button and, of course, a red paint job.
Yeah, right now I only have core and Lure of the Expanse for RT, with Battlefleet Koronous in the mail, somewhere, so I have no clue what advantages you can get from those, and my reading of my DH, RT, and DW books leads me to think that most Orky things don't work for non-Orks, so I was unsure how well those upgrades would assimilate into your ship. What sorts of things (without pissing off copyright by copying them, do they do? How much do they improve your ship? Most importantly, can one Eldar up their ship, too. I love Eldar, and have much more faith in their tech, even if it is really hard to implement.Flying an Eldar Corsair vessel would be awesome.
Ale Golem said:
Imperial space isn't a necessity for a Rogue Trader game, there's plenty of back water space stations and unscrupulous traders whom will deal with anyone providing money or services.
True again. I'm thinking more than a few Rogue Traders rarely ever come back to Imperial space. Getting out from under the boot of the Lords of Terra and Ecclesiarchy is nice, but better if you can keep out from under it. With many of the things Rogue Traders are allowed to do, or do thinking they are, when they are not, "going home" could be very dangerous. I was just saying that, if you wanted to go back, say to have a forge world refit the ship, or to do something in their space, Ork tek seems like some of the most obvious modifications possible, and most loyal, Emperor-fearing mortals would look at the giant metal teeth, and refuse to associate with you. Out in the Expanse, they don't care, so run with it.
Ale Golem said:
You're also forgetting the Sanctioned Xenos trait from Into The Storm, which in this instance will simply be a large piece of flash with "Sanktchunned Ze Nose" stamped into it that the Ork will wear around his neck.
I have not seen that book, yet, so I did not know. Sorry bout that. my experience has the Imperium pretty straight against many things xenos, and the rules are supposedly from Him on Terra, so not subject to flexibility for Rogue Traders. If there are numerous things you can get that circumvent one more Imp. rule, because you are a Rogue Trader, then cool.
Ork and human weapon upgrades are incompatible with the other race's weapons. I see no reason why this should be different for ships. That and the other enginseers and tech priests would consider it blasphemy of the highest sort.
Still, there's nothing preventing a mech boy from working with human technology, especially with the Sanctioned Xenos perk and their intuitive understanding, and if the PCs are ever aboard an Ork ship, that character's skill would be prove invaluable.
venkelos said:
Lessens crew damage as there are lots of extra Grots but they panic easily, increases enemy crew damage during boarding actions, extra maneuverability and extra speed respectively. There's at least three official Eldar enhancements in the core book starting on page 207.
venkelos said:
It's a trait that an individual Xenos can take essentially letting the captain vouch for them so Imperial citizens won't screw with them.
I've always been a fan of the more reasonable (in my mind) idea that the psychic emanations of Orks isn't entirely responsible for their technology working, but that it just makes it work better for them.
Case in point, in Into the Storm we have Ork weapons gain the Unreliable trait when used by anyone else (that is, they work better despite their shoddy craftsmanship when wielded by an Ork).
It's a lot less batshit silly than some Imperial picking up a Slugga and going, "wtf!? It's just a block of metal. The barrel isn't even real, it's just an old tin can welded to the front! Where the hell to the bullets actually come out!?".
I see it like BloodPact, too.
From the Ork fluff I've read, the Mek-Boys have a lot of their knowledge encoded into their 'DNA', and don't always know what they're doing, even though they are doing it right! A few more nails, a lick of redpaint and Bingo, a shoota!
While their is no way Humans could add upgrades to Orky stuff, a decent mek-boy could bodge something together, cram some snots'n'grots in, and make a sort-of-recognisable upgrade!
And a lot are far from stoopid, but with their crude language and focused thoughts (fight fight fight fight!), they can often appear so to others.
Originally, Orks were masters of force fields and tractor-beams (Lifta-Droppas, Pulsa Rokkits etc) and sealed their Hulk-shipd with force-fields rather than bothering to make the hull air-tight! (Some boyz would probably only let off a shoota and blow a hole in it anyway!)
As is surmised, Imperial Savants have long pondered how Ork Technology can be made to work. Logically, most of their contraptions should fall to pieces, blow themselves up or pull everything inside to bloody bits, but it is impossible to deny that in the hand of Orks, they generally (luckily Orky Tech has the habit of doing from time to time very amusing things to the Orks using it) work. And work well, considering they are one of the most prevalent forms of Xenos encountered all over the Imperium.
The question of course is how it works. As for now, pending further research, it seems that Orks (and the more Orks, the better) emanate a field of Orkoid psychic energy that 'fixes' the inherent flaws of their designs. The most probable reason is a collective trust in their own creations and (it is shocking to see Xenos think in such ways!) their racial superiority. An important consideration here is 'fixes'. Take the example of a Voidsuit: If it is a ramshackle affair of loads of steel and tubing pumping air and heat, an Ork will 'fix' its inherent unreliability with this supposed Ork psychic energy. But if it is just a see through plasbag he pulls over his head, it will not be enough to prevent the normal effects of the void to make itself felt. Just as an Ork can not just pick up a pen and a can of beans and turn it in a flamethrower.
So, in essence, the basic device an Ork wishes to use has to be there but will only achieve useful reliability through Ork use. The few humans who have tried to incorporate Xenos devices in their own ships have found this an unsolvable problem (we have to thank the Inquisition here for their cooperation on this matter). However interesting tractor beams and their like might be, once installed on Imperial vessels they just fail to work, even if there are some of the strange 'Mekboyz' aboard. The logical presumption is that - as we all know- size does matter. The vast constructs on a spaceship seems to necessitate a comparably vast crew of 'boyz' to overcome their inherent unreliability. A reassuring thought if there is one, as befouling human ships with such Xenos technology is a clear case of Heretek. Praise to the God-Emperor and Omnissiah that the Adeptus Mechanicus have been as least as vigorous as the Ordo Xenos in rooting out such traitors to the Race of Man.
Friedrich van Riebeeck, Navigator Primus, Heart of the Void
Blood Pact said:
I've always been a fan of the more reasonable (in my mind) idea that the psychic emanations of Orks isn't entirely responsible for their technology working, but that it just makes it work better for them.
Case in point, in Into the Storm we have Ork weapons gain the Unreliable trait when used by anyone else (that is, they work better despite their shoddy craftsmanship when wielded by an Ork).
It's a lot less batshit silly than some Imperial picking up a Slugga and going, "wtf!? It's just a block of metal. The barrel isn't even real, it's just an old tin can welded to the front! Where the hell to the bullets actually come out!?".
Dark Bunny Lord said:
Well to be fair they said the Mechanicus has tried to deconstruct Ork Tek in the past and found many examples where there is no possible way it should be able to function and yet in the hands of an Ork it does.
And to be equally fair, the Mechanicus are not the most endowed when it comes to thinking outside their own self-impossed dogma and religion of the machine. Maybe the Ad-Mech are to caught up in "we believe it shouldn't work, therefore it can't" rather than "it does work, so lets find out how".
Hygric said:
Dark Bunny Lord said:
Well to be fair they said the Mechanicus has tried to deconstruct Ork Tek in the past and found many examples where there is no possible way it should be able to function and yet in the hands of an Ork it does.
And to be equally fair, the Mechanicus are not the most endowed when it comes to thinking outside their own self-impossed dogma and religion of the machine. Maybe the Ad-Mech are to caught up in "we believe it shouldn't work, therefore it can't" rather than "it does work, so lets find out how".
Again I point to the effects of red paint. This single effect should be more than enough to prove that Ork Tek isn't always "functional tek that's poorly made and just works better in the hands of an Ork" and instead occasionally does indeed do the "it's literally impossible but the Ork WAAAGH makes it work somehow".
In some of the older Ork fluff, red-paint was explained as working not simply by it's red so it goes faster, but by being painted red it triggered something subconscious in the Mek-boys that looked after it to finely tune it and modify it subtly to go faster, as well as having a sub-conscious effect on the driver of the vehicle to be even more heavy footed than the average Ork. (I think that may date back to "WAAGH! The Orks" and "Ere we Go!")
Then of course we have the Deffskullz. Paint yourself blue and bullets will miss you. But that is well within the possibility of psychic effects allready well represented within the rules.
As for the Ad-Mech, give me one example of Xeno-tech that they have reversed engineered and mass-produced. Actually, that sounds a bit harsh, I honestly want examples to disprove my view of the Ad-Mech!
Considering the red paintjob, you will still need an aircraft, voidship, bike or whatever to make it work. If it is purely the psychic power or subconscious tinkering, or probably a mix of both, combined with some good whacking to make it work better, you still need a reasonable 'focus' for the orky tech. And the bigger it is, the more orks you need to make it work, either by massive tinkering or plain waaaagh power.
FvR