From wikipedia:

Power creep is the gradual unbalancing of a game due to successive releases of new content.[1] The phenomenon may be caused by a number of different factors and, in extreme cases, can be damaging to the longevity of the game in which it takes place.

As new expansions or updates are released, new game mechanics or effects are introduced, making it increasingly difficult for older content to remain in balance without changes. Usually, this means new content releases grow successively more powerful while older content becomes relatively underpowered.

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I first noticed this happening during the Rituals Of The Order cycle and seriously increased with the coming of Ancient Relics cycle. Cards were becoming more and more powerful, and in a very straightforward way. The fact that many of the AP's have caused a lot of commotion when cards have been spoiled from them, like for example Catastrophic Explosion and Y'ha Nthlei Statue, is clearly a sign of leap in card power. The game was clearly increasing in power, which leads to faster games considering the speedy nature of the game.

Then again, unlike CCGs, LCG format is in my opinion less vulnerable to serious power creep as new expansions don't completely change the legal cardpool, just tweak it a bit. Also, there are a lot more cards with focus on one game situation and only few really "basic" cards, unlike in CCG format games. Personally i still think the current situation is slightly alarming, not because the powerlevel is increasing overall, but because in current situation it is very easy for a single deck strategy to suddenly become too dominant and break the game. Of course, this has always been a problem with this game anyway (Magah/Step nonsense?)..... So, what are your thoughts on the matter? Is this game having a serious power creep and should we be conserned?

(Sorry if the post is confusing, have slept way too little and played way too much Skyrim.... )

One good method to calculate the level of Power Creep is to count the Cost/Skill/Icon ration of a vanilla character. What did you get for 2 cost during 2009, 2010 and 2011..... and then you could use that as a measurement for how the power is increasing. But this game really has no vanilla characters, or even characters with simple universal abilities (like MtG), so this calculation would be kind of pointless unfortunately. Also, all of the icons in my opinion are not equally valuable, which also makes this type of calculations impossible.

I would call it more of a power spike than a power creep...

The reprinted ccg era AP's along with the previous AP cycle has contributed greatly to the power level of the game. To me one measure of this is the increase in the number of decks that utterly slaughter a well made casual deck. This is a difficult concept to get across, but what I see is that given the tools available I need to look for ways to intentionally neuter out tricky mechanics that will make a less competative opponent feel hopelessly lost once they kick in. I want to avoid giving specific examples because this thread will quickly digress into a "there are answers to the that" conversation. However, the list of "hater' cards has increased at an alarming rate and I see no way of backing out of what the environment has become.

Yeah, that's definitely true. Some of the current cards/strategies seem very overwhelming and possibly frustrating for new players to play against. The number of total bomb cards is also alarming, especially for Cthulhu which already before the new packs was top tier faction. Khopesh AND Aziz in a same AP is just madness!

What i would like to see are cards that slow the game down, as the insane speed and high power level are a dangerous combination. Games that are decided during the first turn are rarely that enjoyable. There are also some serious bombs out currently that propably need countermeasures, though hopefully not banning, but shifting of meta to completely new direction, if that's at all possible.

I think there is some power creep going on, but it's still in the early stages of it. There are still many good solid cards from the core set that I use in every deck. That's a good sign to me that older cards are still viable.

One strategy I am seeing in the current meta that has me concerned, is the "removal" effects that are currently available. I personally think that strategy is currently too powerful. The Yog Sothoth faction in general has some extremely powerful sacrifice effects, and when paired with a destruction faction like Cthulhu, you can wipe out any character your opponent plays including Ancient Ones. Here are a few cards that fuel this strategy:

• A Single Glimpse
• Cursed Skull
• Initiation of Galakii
• Many Angled Thing
• Faceless Abductor
• Diseased Sewer Rats
• The Mage Known as Magnus
• Deep One Assault
• Deep One Rising
• Dreamlands Fanatic
• Kopesh of the Abyss
• The Temple of R'lyeh

There are a few more I'm sure that can fuel this engine, but I've built a deck like this to playtest, and it is devastating. Kopesh of the Abyss alone is a game winner, and if you play it on a Hideous Guardian from Yog, . Overall, I think this design is extremely powerful, and I haven't seen much that can go toe to toe with it other than a similar deck.

Has anyone else noticed this?

I actually have a slightly similar deck currently, but with Agency instead of Yog to make it more speedy. And yeah, kill effects are becoming a big threat for the current meta, but luckily we are also starting to get cards to deal with destruction effects, like the Academy relic in the Breathing Jungle pack. Then again, we are nowhere near a state where kill cards are easy to deal with.....

Yes, Yog-thulhu is a lethal combo. In addition to all of the destruction you also get investigator icons with Wilbur Whateley and Blood Magician and evasion with Noises in the Hills. This triad of cards serious blurs the line between the investigator based and monstrosity based factions. Oh wait... these cards are all from the CCG era. Was it REALLY a good idea to reintroduce these AP's into the environment?

I would like to see the more expensive Heroic Characters with a save mechanic similar to the way unique characters work in AGoT and generally more redirection of targeted effects to lower level mooks in the human factions. I also want a peanut butter sandwich with a super thick chocolate shake to dip it in!

Tokhuah said:

Many of the cards have been nerfed since they the CCG version was quite powerful, so the question is: Has the nerf been sufficient.

Still, I'd rather have them than not.

Tokhuah said:

Haven't yet really focused on the reprinted packs apart from first two, as the two new cycles and some of the more insane cards in those have stolen the spotlight completely. But if what you say about faction/side lines getting blurred by some of the cards, then that's bad. Of the monster factions, only Shub should have access to Investigation in the form of Mi-Go's, otherwise you'd have to use trickery to get those. Then again, i have secretly been hoping that the HoST would get a few characters with Terror, which would blur the line more

Well, don't forget that Yog has had investigation icons for a while now. The Elder Thing scientists all have them. So to me that is not a big deal. Misk is still the only faction that really puts them in the spotlight. I don't really think the re-prints are game breaking in this regard.

The problems I think, being around the flat out 'destroy' and 'sacrifice' effects that bypass the text on the cards completely, negating any keywords you have built your deck around. Again, this wouldn't be such a huge deal if there weren't so many cards available that did this. I can play 12 cards in my deck from Yog that force my opponent to sacrifice a character, no matter what it is. Combined with direct wounding and destroy abilities, and it's extremely difficult to get any board presence.

badash56 said:

Ah, true, completely forgot that!

The amount of destruction effects also feeds the rush tactics, because when you can't build board presence, only way to achieve it is to rush the win. And considering that rush has for a long time been a dominant strategy, this isn't good for game variety.

Shangfu said:

The most dangerous cards, imho, are the ones that destroy/remove several characters in one fell sweep, e.g. the Khopesh. Without them the game would keep somewhat balanced if both players pack a couple of destruction/removal cards (or rely on the tactics outlined above).

Shangfu said:

Having said all that, I agree that currently the most consistently good decks are the ones that combine rush tactics with destruction effects. I don't think it's a coincidence that the winning decks in the two most recent large tournaments (in Belgium and in Spain) have been Cthulhu/Shub decks built around the Khopesh.

Yup I would agree that there are a few things that do slow a removal deck down. Shub or Things in the Ground do give the one deck I made some trouble, for sure!

Maybe it is just me and my AGOT background, but I don't see characters dying after a couple of turns to be a problem, especially thematically when what you are dealing with are outer-dimensional horrors.

The Shub-thulhu decks I've seen with the Khopesh have all been control decks. Toss out a character with toughness arm it with the khopesh and and to town Jason/Michael Myers style and wonder across for story wins until they get more characters on the board, and then wash rinse repeat. The games are over quickly but the way the deck wins is by controlling your opponent's board position.