Hey all,

This isn't a report of any kind, but we had a tournament at our local games store today and I'm interested in your views on something that happened during play. Just a flash-poll of opinion, really.

We had ten players, so two games of three people and one game of four people for each round. We had three rounds, and then went to the final table.

I play to win, like most people. I don't mean that in the heavy, serious minded killer deck, killer attitude sense that some people mean when they say 'I played to win'. I mean that I play the game with a view to doing my best and hopefully coming out on top, something even the most casual of gamers should be doing.

Just to set the scene, here's my record leading up-to round 3...

Game 1, three players - 2nd

Game 2, three players - 1st

Game 3...

During game three I found myself in an unenviable position. Stark had an appalling turn two and lost all of the cards from his hand and everything but locations from play. To take advantage of this, I played the plot Prince that was Promised so that my Beric could take full advantage. This wouldn't be a winning move, but would put me in a strong position. I do so, only to realise to my horror that Lannister to my immediate right has a Timmet with more attachments on than Beric. I plan to remedy this during my turn, but things don't turn out as planned and suddenly Lannister is on 14 power. I'm on 6 power, Baratheon (to my left) is on a 4 power, and Stark has nothing.

Next plot phase, I play Take Them By Surprise! and hand the first player to Lannister, as my intention was for him to win immediately, guaranteeing me second place and a place at the final table. Stark and Baratheon (especially Stark) go a bit mad at this, citing the spirit of the game, etc. The truth is, I would have selected myself as the first player and done some damage to Lannister. This would also have allowed Baratheon and Stark to get back into the game. Lannister would then have tussled with me during his challenges, and we could have tussled one another to a standstill for the next couple of rounds. from my point of view, I'd made an error with my turn three plot which hadn't so much as handed the game to Lannister, but pushed it out of my immediate grasp. I could have went on to win, or I could have went on to come last, but I settled for second because I wanted to see the final table (which I then won!), although I feel some element of guilt at almost 'fixing' the game in such a way.

I think the sting in the tale for Stark and Baratheon is that our regular games are one-off games and everyone plays to win at any cost . But playing to qualify for a final table is a different experience, and sometimes it's best to concede defeat for a reasonable placement (A bit like the final table, as there was literally no prize for second place!).

These are people I play with regularly, not randoms at an event, so when Stark went home in a bit of a mood, his day and his chances at making final table in ruins, I felt a bit bad. I'm curious about other people's experiences with this type of thing, and how you deal with it? Anyone agree or disagree with the chain of events? Not looking for vindication, I'm just genuinely interested in how people handle such things.

Nitro Pirate said:

Sorry, just to correct a typo in there I meant to say I COULD have selected myself as first player. The post makes no sense without that correction.

I see nothing wrong with it. You've already placed well in the prior tables, so you're settling for second to secure your place at the final table.

Since your friends are so about "playing to win" you'd think they wouldn't mind you settling for second so you can go to the last table to, you know... win.

Yeah, in melee qualifying rounds, sometimes you will make decisions to end the game at a point that benefits you, even if you don't win. It's not much different than two players taking a draw to ensure they both qualify in a joust for the playoffs. It is cheesy, but it is legal and a valid play.

As a non-tournament player (for any game) this might not be worth much to you, but IMO it sounds like you did absolutely nothing wrong. Sounds like sour grapes... Most of my gaming is with a bunch of other Marines, and while we are all very competitive there are no hard feelings that last more than 10 seconds until the next fart or "your mom" joke gets everybody laughing. If anyone acted the way you are describing we'd probably all punch him in the jimmy and call him a little sissy-girl...

YMMV

I can't imagine anything wrong with this. Do you think they would've done the same thing in your position? As far as "playing to win" goes, that's exactly what you were doing, given that the entire purpose of the tourney was to win the final table, so the "win" purpose of the penultimate table was to reach the final table.

As for "the spirit of the game," what you did was definitely in the spirit of the game. Instead of going for the big win, you have to count your losses and take what you can get in order to fight another day. I don't see why you would've done Stark and Bara a favor when it could have ended up hurting you, better to win second now to than to come in last two rounds from now. I don't think Littlefinger or Varys would have done it any different.

In a tournament you play to win, or you die.

No, wait, that's the TV show tagline...Which proves that your move was indeed in the spirit of the game!

In friendly play this would certainly be frowned on in my group (but then again there would be no reason to let another player win like this in a friendly game)

In a tournament I would have done the same in your shoes unless it was clear I could fight on and maybe get first, whilst still being fairly certain of second place. Sounds like the lannister player would have won anyway so, given that, you were still playing to win out of the remaining 3.

My two cents

You have sinned against nature

I don't think there's anything wrong with your play - based on the way the rules are set up.

However, this is an excellent example of why the current rules giving points for 2nd, 3rd place are IDIOTIC. The Melee rules need to be changed so that only the winner receives points, & go to strength of schedule after that. In a Game of Thrones, you win or die.

I agree with the other posters. You did what you had to do to win. Who cares that their feelings got hurt a little. If what you're saying is true, then they are oblivious poor sports and shouldn't play competitively. You shouldn't feel guilty in the least.

This is why the 1:1 format is better...

no issues with your move. good job on the win.

LordofBrewtown said:

Could not agree more, in melee games the winner should be the only one at the table to receive points, the way it is currently set up it begs for collusion, pretty soon we are going to have an issue with this at a melee in a major event. . .. . . . oh wait

Playing to win doesnt necessarily mean "Playing to win the current table."

You were playing to win the tournament.

I have no issues with your decision.