Just a quick question on whether or not cost reducers apply. Don't see anything that says you can't...

bbleers said:

The standard cost reducers do not apply because of the wording "....that you play..." on them. When a card comes out of shadows, it is "...coming into play...". You can use Twilight Market (http://www.cardgamedb.com/forums/uploads/1281901798/med_gallery_28_99250.jpg) to reduce the cost INTO shadows though.

You may also play the House Stark location Hidden Chambers to reduce the cost of bringing a card out of the shadows by 1 as long as it is Winter.

King's Landing
No attachments.
If it is Winter, reduce the cost to bring your cards out of Shadows by 1.
If it is Summer, return Hidden Chambers to your hand.

http://www.agotcards.org/card/v/443

Hidden chambers only works for the coming out of shadows via the standard a mechanic rather than a card ability (like an ANY PHASE) if i remember correctly.

bbleers said:

If there isn't a rule or card effect that specifically allows it, you can't do it. So until there is a rule or a card that specifically allows you to reduced the cost of a card coming out of Shadows (Hidden Chambers being the only one to date), you can't. Same reason you cannot use reducers - other than Twilight Market which specifically says you can - to lower the cost of putting cards into Shadows.

Thanks guys. Appreciate the ruling as always Ktom although I would like to go on the record here and say that I find shadows cards and all of their silly rules to be an enormous pain in the balls... Haha.

ktom said:

Actually I'd say shadows is one of those mechanics that goes against this sort of thinking. Rule Clarification 4.15 explicitly states "Playing a card into Shadows is considered to be playing a card from hand". Based on this, it seems that cards like Fiefdoms which lower the cost of playing cards from your hand would also apply to Shadows. However, in the Shadows rulebook it states "the cost to play cards into Shadows can be reduced, but only by effects that specifically reduce the cost of playing a card into Shadows." I'd venture to say that without that ruling, you wouldn't be wrong in thinking that you can reduce the cost of playing into shadows with cards like Fiefdoms. I imagine that the reason that ruling is there is because cost reduction cards generally have a stipulation regarding the card type or affiliation, and thus it would diminish the purpose of shadows as you'd have to reveal that the card did meet the criteria in order to reduce its into-shadows cost.

Thanks for proving the basic point that in this game, a rule needs to allow you to specifically do something. You cannot base your reason for doing A on the absence of a rule forbidding A. Your post confirms this by stating "the rules SAY X is true, which can be interpreted as...".

As for using Fiefdoms and other card specific reducers to play a card into Shadows, you correctly identify the main problem it would have, even without "specific reducer" rule from the Shadows sheet: when you play a card into Shadows, you are not playing a Lannister character or Barathron location anymore than you are playing Ser Arys Oakheart when you dupe a copy in play. You are playing a Shadow cad of hidden, undetermined, and indeterminable identity. The "reduce the next Martell card you play this phase" effect arguably cannot apply.