HEllo,

We all agreed that a song give the attached hero a ressource icon of one sphere and then this hero belongs to that sphere ? Correct ?

So, here is an exemple : I have Aragorn with "Song of wisdom".

I may attach my "A burning brand" to Aragorn since he has the lore ressource icon.

If, for any reason, "song of wisdow" is discarded, what happens to "a burning brand" its restriction only applies while it is set or else ?

Thanks for your opinion !

I would vote that the attachment remains. It required that the character be a Lore character when attaching. I say the requirements were met and the cost was paid when the attachment was played. After that the only thing that should matter is what the attachment does since we're not paying the cost every round to keep it attached.

But that ruling would benefit the player so it must be wrong. The attachment would probably be discarded at any point that the attached character no longer meets the requirement.

I'll let the smart people around here decide. I just play because the cards are pretty colors.

I agree with Marlow's first paragraph.

Agreed!

The card says "attach to a [lore] hero" This means, at the moment of attaching the attachement the hero, it must be a lore hero. card text doesn't it must stay a lore hero while the attachemend keeps attached during play

omg, I really apologize for my broken english

I would disagree. While this is not based on anything currently in the ruling for this game, but the Game of Thrones card game has very similar cirumstances. For one the actual rulebook in both games share similar wording and do not make mention of this case. The FAQ says "Any attachment that has a restriction is immediately discarded from play at any time this restriction is not met. Such restrictions are constant effects, and the attachment should be immediately discarded any time a restriction is not met."

Again, this doesn't pertain to LotR but at least it's the same game designer. I'm sure many will disagree but I would bet the farm on this being correct for this game as well.

I ran into a similar problem when a new player I was teaching the game to used A Light in the Dark to send a Cave Troll who had been Forest Snared back to the staging area. This move caused some confusion but I think that I handled it as per the rules. The rules for the Forest Snare are as follows:

[Attachment]

Item. Trap.

Attach to an enemy engaged with a player.
Attached enemy cannot attack.

The other players at the table thought that the Forest Snare would be discarded if the Cave Troll was sent back to the Staging area but I explained that it just required that the target of the Forest Snare be engaged with a player in order to have the attachment played on it; however, after that the Snare would stay attached until other card effects removed the attachment from the Cave Troll.

Did I do this correctly, it seems to make sense as far as I understand the rules. I would say that a in order for Burning Brand to be attached to a hero that hero must posses the Lore sphere, so with the Song of Wisdom attached to say Aragorn he could have A Burning Brand played on him. It does say that the attach effects require the character to be in the Lore sphere but it doesn't say it has to remain a lore character to wield it. I'd probably play that if a Hero with A Burning Brand lost its Lore status that it would lose the Brand as well because I'm all about player punishment. But I'll wait until an Errata on this one before I decide officially.

Shiv@n said:

Unfortunatly Aragorn doesn't become a lore hero with SoW attached to him. Only his resources get lore status.

The Strolling Bones said:

Why would anyone want to send a trapped troll back to the staging area?

You didn't play against each other, didn't you?

leptokurt said:

Yes, he does. The rulebook states that having the icon is what gives you membership in the sphere. There's no distinction made between printed icons and icons granted to a hero by other cards.

radiskull said:

This is correct -- attaching Song of Wisdom to Aragorn does give him membership to the Lore sphere, and thus allows you to play BB on him.

radiskull said:

I see. Does that mean that the "found only on hero cards" bit of the rules is overruled by the Songs' cardtext? And why didn't they just say that the hero with a song becomes a membership of that sphere? The logic in the rules also seems to be weird: "the resource icon indicates to which sphere your hero belongs" instead of simply saying "the sphere of a hero indicates which kind of resources he can play". Some rules seem to be uneccessarily overcomplicated.

Thanks anyway, seems like from now on I can allow Frodo to play with the fire. BURNING DOWN THE ANDUIN!!!!!!!!!!!!

leptokurt said:

While the rulebook isn't necessarily the most precise instrument in the world, precision is important. Heroes don't "play" resources, they gain them. Players spend resources to play cards.

leptokurt said:

Descendant of Thorondor!

Marlow said:

I fully agree with your last two sentences those are my feelings exactly!

I mailed to ask for an answer to this question...

leptokurt said:

The reason that the new player wanted to move the Cave Troll back to the Staging area is so he could get use out of Dunhere who had been pumped up with 2 Dunedain Marks. I explained that it may not be the best move but we cake walked the scenario in the end.

leptokurt said:

I think we can hopefully confirm clearly the ability of characters to belong to multiple spheres by benifit of the resource icons. The key facet you dint type from the hero card anatomy in the rule book is the plural reference for spheres.

"They also indicate to which sphere(s) the hero card itself belongs"

With the talk of dual sphere heros in the future this will become even more prevalent I presume.

WIth regards to Burning Brand I would agree to statements above with the conclusion that; the required on the card is only stated for attachment (not for control, or for triggering action), and there in no mechanic stated that requires the player to discard attachments tor to continuously check heros sphere of influence.

As ever all these ideas can be re interpretated, with the increase of multi sphere game play this may be an aspect FFG could nail down for us in principal.

I can even imagine attachments in the future that would require a certain sphere to activate and these I feel should also remain attached to a hero in the situation we are discusing. I certainly wouldnt like to see the requirement to discard a song through a treachery or shadow effect, for example, and then lose additional attachments that I have paid resource for when I can potenially play a new song.

While singing 'Eye of the Tiger' (Song of Battle) a Hero of any sphere can wield mighty tactics only weapons!

leptokurt said:

I didn't find this to be complicated at all. In fact, I was playing like this before I read that part of the rulebook because it just makes most sense to me.

Anyway, the "found only on hero cards" part even makes sense. They ARE found only on hero cards. No other card uses resource icons. That doesn't mean no cards can reference them.

The context of this whole thing is an explanation of each part of a card. It's a numbered list of all the parts of a card with explanations. In this context, yes these are only found on hero cards. No other card type in the game uses a resource icon. The songs may have the icon printed on them, but they don't "have" a resource icon (and definitely not in the location or with the usage referenced by the number "9" in terms of the card anatomy on those pages). They have an effect which grants a resource icon to a hero card, which is perfectly in line with the rules... the hero card is still the only card with resource icons.

Finally got an answer :

"Attachments only check the requirements when played. So for your example you could play a Forest Snare on an enemy, and then return the enemy to the staging area and the Forest Snare would stay attached. Same with Support of Eagles."

Shiv@n said:

So this mean if your Hero have a lore song and get by this song Lore icon you can play Burning Brand on him. SO if somehow song will be discarded brand will stay after?

Yes, exactly.

Shiv@n said:

It's the opposite of how it's ruled in AGoT. But the wording is very subtly different, too. Here we have "Attach to a Lore hero." In AGoT, you have "Lord character only."

Not trying to argue anything in particular, just pointing out a difference.