I have checked the errata, but have not checked all posts, so sorry if i am repeating things already answered but;

1. Does a fellowship bonus to marines affect cohesion points? If a kill team leader has a fellowship score of 40 and is wearing mk 4 maximus armour (+15 fellowship with marines) and has the history gauntlets of xirion (+5 fellowship bonus to marines) is his cohesion points from fellowship 4 or 6? Or something else (just in case I am totally wrong?

2. Why does an apothecary have resistance (cold) and resistance (heat) for 500 points each, when all Deathwatch characters can take them for 300? I know there has always been the reference to future products, not that we have seen much of it yet, but surely they should at least get it cheaper than other deathwatch marines, not more expensive. Especially considering their rank one advance tree is not very exciting already.

3. Why don't imperial Fists have trade (remembrancer) on their advance scheme? I accept that they can buy trade (any) through the general space marine advance scheme for 600, but would have thought they would have been prime candidates for a reduced cost specific trade skill.

4. If only space marines get armour histories and space marines are to a large extent immune to fear, why do several armour histories give bonuses to fear tests, as do some psionic powers? My understanding of the fear rules for marines is that in solo mode, they suffer an automatic penalty to WP, no test required. In squad mode the squad leader makes a WP test to avoid loosing cohesion. Ignoring the fact that strictly it is a WP test and not a fear test (which has specific rules) and therefore there is an argument that marines according to the deathwatch rules never make fear tests (Black Crusade not withstanding). So ignoring that for a moment what does the bonus provide? Does it only provide a bonus if that marine is the squad leader? Does it provide that bonus to the leader, even if the marine with the bonus is not the leader? Considering that some of the bonuses can be pretty powerful, a bonus to fear tests that might only work if the marine is the leader and they are currently in squad mode would seem to fall behind most of the others, especially as those histories tend to have downsides as well.

Thanks in advance.

rhino1976 said:

I play this way- if the leader has bonuses to his fellowship that increase his bonus, that bonus is added in. Note that if they lose the bonus, the cohesion would go down

rhino1976 said:

They may deserve it, but I think the thought is that not all future marines would get items from the 'general advances' table. Or it's a typo that they didn't care to correct. TBH, I think the Apothecary kind of got the short end of the crunch stick.

rhino1976 said:

There are a lot of misgivings in general about the way the Fists were made. If you have someone that wants to play them, I'd say give it to them either earlier than other marines or reduce the cost by a couple hundred xp.

rhino1976 said:

You can call it what you will but you're still making a WP check modified by the fear rating of the creature you're facing. The main difference is that as a Marine if you fail the roll, you either suffer penalties to all WP rolls made in the presence of the creature, or if you are in squad mode the leader makes the roll and if he fails the squad loses the fear rating in cohesion. You still make the roll because you're in front of a fear inducing thing, you just don't gain insanity or shoot yourself because of it.

rhino1976 said:

I think it does.

rhino1976 said:

Because there are scores of inconsistencies int he crunch. Drop the price to 200, the Apothecary deserve that much and it's not like those talents will get picked very often anyway.

rhino1976 said:

Sub-par crunch. The author hadn't fully arrived at the new system yet, at least that is my impression.

rhino1976 said:

It's not a fear test. But the leader only needs to test for those who fail their fear test. If everyone in squad mode passes - no problem. Get this: if the PCs encounter a source of Fear(x), everyone still needs to test against Fear(x).

But to generally answer your questions: it's not fully thought through. The game has been likely prone to lots of change while being developed under time pressure. In the end a bonus to fear wasn't all that beneficial as it might have been intended in the beginning. A bonus versus fear is just not great.

Another reason why Imperial Fist's crunch is meh. I still think they should have something like Blademaster at an appropriate price (and Trade(R.)) but I am in the clear minority about that here. As it stands they aren't great. Siege Master is the only thing really worthwhile (but that one is really good). And after the nerf of Bolt Weapons Tactical Bolter Drill is terrible.

I only hope they bring out a Second Foundings sourcebook and overhaul the Crimson Fists.

Alex

Thanks for the replies.

Now I am wondering if I have fear right at all from your answers though.

My understanding was that in solo mode the WP loss is automatic, no roll at all and in squad mode only the leader makes the roll.

The answers seem to be suggesting that if marines encounter fear inducing creature they make a fear check. If in solo mode and they fail, they take a WP penalty. If in squad mode and they fail, the leader makes a WP test or they loose cohesion ( it does state they can only loose cohesion once per encounter), but that means the leader could be making a roll for every member of the kill team if they all fail the fear test (including himself).

The first part does make sense, the getting a roll to avoid the affect, not the WP penalty itself, which to me makes very little sense. The second part seems very long winded, with 6 battle brothers in squad mode, that means 6 fear tests and then up to 6 more WP tests from the team leader, until one is failed.

If that is right, it opens up another question, do the bonuses to fear only count for the initial fear test and not the leaders WP test?

Thanks

SInce the leader's test is not a fear test, it seems as if it does not count. Personally I would apply all bonuses to command for this test. Also there is stuff like the Ultramarine's Marks of leadership Cingulum which does apply.

Alex