The FAQ says :

A Moribund card (and its attachments) is
considered to have been killed, discarded,
returned to its owner's hand or deck, or moved
to its owner's shadows area, but only for the
purposes of triggering responses and passive
abilities. This includes responses and passive
abilities triggered by a card being placed in
the appropriate out-of-play area. A Moribund
card is, for all other purposes, still considered
in play.

So let's say that my Red Viper dies, and I choose to his Response: killing all characters. I am allowed to do this because although my Red Viper is considered to have left play, I can initiate his Response thanks to the FAQ.

However, my opponent has a Bloodrider and wants to cancel The Red Viper triggered ability... or triggered effect? As a matter of fact, TRV is considered out-of-play for the purposes of triggering responses (such as Bloodrider's). And the rules say that an effect triggered from out of play is not considered an ability.

So, TRV kill effect would not be a triggered ability but only a triggered effect, not cancelable by Bloodrider, and able to kill another copy of TRV (Immune to character abilities) that my opponent has in play.

The FAQ also says:

In other words, a Moribund card is considered
to have left play but is physically still in play

Which also support this reasoning.

However I still have some doubts but can't find where it might be wrong - so I have posted it here.

Bolzano said:

This says "This includes responses and passive abilities triggered...". Wouldn't the correct terminology be passive "effects"? Or am I misunderstanding what the definition of an ability is in this game?

The entire in-play vs out-of-play state changing what card effects become to other cards is beginning to become overwhelming.

Right, I didn't notice the wording "ability" of a card being placed in an out-of-play area.

This is somehow contradicted by the other sentence saying that the card is considered to have left play.

Which still leaves us without clear conclusion.

Quoting from you and from the FAQ:

A Moribund card (and its attachments) is
considered to have been killed, discarded,
returned to its owner's hand or deck, or moved
to its owner's shadows area, but only for the
purposes of triggering responses and passive
abilities. This includes responses and passive
abilities triggered by a card being placed in
the appropriate out-of-play area. A Moribund
card is, for all other purposes, still considered
in play.

more from the FAQ:

In other words, a Moribund card is considered
to have left play but is physically still in play
and retains its abilities (including attachments
and their abilities) and is allowed to interact
with the game as normal until it is finally (and
physically) placed in the discard/dead pile or
returned to hand/deck during Step 6 of the
action window.
This means that any response ability or passive
effect on a Moribund card can be triggered for
the remaining duration of the action window ,
and other abilities that trigger when a card
leaves play (in either of the four ways) can be
triggered (even if the card has not physically
left play yet). When the card finally leaves the
game in Step 6, it loses its abilities (as cards
do when they actually leave play), and ceases
to be Moribund. Attachments also lose their
abilities (and are discarded).

Basically, a purpose of Moribund is to trigger abilities off of the card being placed in Moribund. For all other purposes, it's still considered to be in play, which I believe includes the perspective of other cards in play. From the perspective of Bloodrider, self-referential triggered effects off of that card being placed in the moribund state is still a character ability since The Red Viper should still be considered to be in play.

A purpose of Moribund is to trigger the card off the Moribund card considering it has been killed/discarded.

Not even talking of the perspective of the Bloodrider, this means the Moribund card effect are triggered by an out-of-play card, and thus are not abilities - or so I think.

You guys are over-thinking this. By a lot. You are also getting very hung up trying to explain it in terms of "effect" vs. "ability." You don't need to.

The FAQ entry on moribund reads: "A Moribund card (and its attachments) is considered to have been killed, discarded, returned to its owner's hand or deck, or moved to its owner's shadows area, but only for the purposes of triggering responses and passive abilities. This includes responses and passive abilities triggered by a card being placed in the appropriate out-of-play area. A Moribund card is, for all other purposes, still considered in play."

I'll throw this at you two different ways:

1. Determining whether something is defined as a "triggered effect" or a "triggered ability" is part of "for all other purposes." So the Response on the Moribund Viper is a "triggered ability" because checking to see if the card is in-play or out-of-play in order to define what kind of effect it is is part of the moribund card interacting with the game "as normal."
2. The idea that the card is considered to have been killed, discarded, etc. "only for the purposes of triggering responses and passive abilities" should not be read as "for ALL purposes of triggering responses and passive abilities." It should only be read as allowing "after a card has been placed in the dead pile" type play restrictions. If you are going to extend the idea that the moribund card has physically left play for absolutely everything involved in triggering a response or passive ability, you cannot trigger the Response on the Viper at all - because you will have to consider the Viper to have left play for the purposes of triggering the Response, which does not say it can be triggered from the dead pile.

So, either you do not extend the "for the purposes of triggering responses and passive abilities" to every possible check and definition involved with triggering every possible Response or passive ability (making the Response on the moribund character a "triggered ability" because the card is still physically on the table and in play), or you take the "for the purposes" statement all the way to its conclusion and cannot trigger effects on moribund cards that do not specifically say they work from an out-of-play area. -- Seems pretty obvious that the moribund card is still considered "in play" and its Response counts as an ability, even when you need to know if it is an effect or an ability in order to trigger a Response.

I agree with your point 2 : she wouldn't be able to trigger her ability, which would make no sense.

Also, you are right saying the wording was to be read a certain way. This question had been raised on our board and seemed wrong, just couldn't find why.

Thanks

Bomb said:

I was always told an attachment is de-attached and moribund:discarded in step 4. Are we now saying it is in step 6?

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?efid=18&efcid=4&efidt=575226

No. We are saying the attachment is discarded in Step 4, but like every card that leaves play, it enters a moribund state and is not physically removed from the table and put in the discard pile until Step 6. Big difference.