Thought you guys might want to know. Unit cards for the heavies and the new infantry units and hero packs are up at dust-models.com. check the upcoming products.

I couldn't help but notice that the Heavy Kommandotrupp doesn't have the Damage Resilience. I hope this is a misprint.

They have the same point cost with the same abilities. The only difference is the "special" weapon... which I'm pretty sure FF believes are "equivalent". I wouldn't bet on DR for the Axis squad.

I find the point difference between the Fireball and the Sturmkonig quite off-putting (and I usually play the Allies side!).

Considering the Konigsluther and the Punisher, unless the anti-aircraft ability of the Sturmkonig is later revealed to be much more useful than it appears right now, the allied heavy walker has so much more in terms of armor, resistance, and variety of abilities than its counterpart. Too much, even considering the limited range of the main weapon, to be listed at 5 points less than the Sturmkonig.

I was stumped by the fact that Angela's sniper rifle did 2/1 damage against walkers, until I watched

There's also a very ironic tone to some very likely combinations of certain heroes and squads:

- The Chef leading Barbecue Squad.

- The Priest with the Hell Boys.

golem101 said:

I'm not completely sure which things you're complaining about, as you appear to be shifting between all four heavy walkers without exactly referencing which you're talking about.

Looking at the four, however, consider the following:

The Punisher, at 100 points, is the most expensive. It matches the Konigsluther for armor and damage capacity, is slightly weaker against vehicles and infantry until the infantry is within six spaces, can destroy anti-tank traps, and carry six infantry 'spaces' which both protects them, and puts them at risk if enough firepower hits the Punisher. With four weapon lines, it can spread firepower, but that isn't normally the best option.

The Konigsluther, at 95 points, is next. It carries the best long ranged anti-tank attack in the game, good anti-infantry capability with unlimited range, dropping below the Allied heavies only when within machinegun range.

The Sturmkonig comes next at 87 points. It has one lower armor, which makes a difference for three Allied units, the Punisher, Pounder, and Blackhawk each roll one more dice than they would against Armor 7. That isn't a huge difference. It has a damage capacity two lower, which is more significant, but still high enough no single attack dice will destroy it, while two hits from the weapons that can do the job with two would also destroy the bigger heavies. It's anti-armor capability is as good as the Ludwig, while its anti-infantry capability is the best in the game until the Allied heavies get within machinegun range. Added to that is Advanced Reactive Fire, with a 55% chance to be able to interrupt an opponent's action. Just above average rolling will destroy an Armor 3 infantry squad on a normal attack, and cause three casualties to an Armor 2 infantry squad. While there are no aircraft or Armor 4 infantry available yet, nothing in the game exceeds the Sturmkonig against either target.

The Fireball brings up the rear at 82 points. Like the Punisher, it carries infantry and can destroy anti-tank traps, with the same issues both pro and con. It can spread firepower like the Punisher, but with a severely restricted range. Scout Vehicle and a flame weapon add nice advantages for initial placement and anti-infantry work.

All four heavies are very functional vehicles, but they are also vehicles that are designed to do very different things. The Allies' are design to assault, though the Punisher can function at range. The Axis' are designed to support. The Punisher and Konigsluther are long range killers, with the edge going to the Konigsluther until the Punisher shifts to closer range. The Sturmkonig is designed to interdict and control enemy movement with dangerous Reactive Fire and exceptional long ranged anti-infantry and anti-air attacks. The Fireball is designed to close and destroy, forcing infantry to move from cover with flame attacks.

All four are good vehicles, but they all have to be used based on their capabilities, instead of trying to do the same thing with all of them, just like the rest of the units in DUST.

Sorry, my bad for poor wording and an even worse explanation.

The Punisher and the Konigsluther fill similar roles, they have no differences in armor and health value, and even considering those in extra weaponry and abilities, they're pretty much in the same ballpark both in function and point wise. The first has a slightly weaker main weapon but comes with troop carrying and dozer blade abilities (better fit for assault), the latter has what looks like the strongest weaponry for the anti-tank role (better fit as interdiction). That's OK.

The Fireball and the Sturmkonig fill very different roles. The former is a specialized assault unit (considering the main weapon, troop carrier feature, high armor and health). The Axis unit has a weapon package that's better than a "lowly" Ludwig only in anti-infantry role, and it also features the lowest combo of armor value&health of the heavy walkers seen so far. Plus, its Advanced Reactive Fire makes it work as an super-high cost, super-efficient, quite resistant defensive element: one that should be placed in one strategical point to dominate part of the battlefield - and not much more else.

In my opinion, this whole list of factors (armor, health, a specialized weapon package) severely limits this heavy walker when compared to the other three. Thusly, I'd have a different point value - that is, unless the anti-aircraft high efficiency of the Sturmkonig becomes so much more important in the future of the game, when air units will show up (something hinted in the Operation Cerberus description too).

Right now, however it does not justify fielding one instead of two Ludwigs - pretty much the same cost in points.

I agree, right now the Sturmkonig does not look like a good investment.

golem101 said:

Well, the Cerberus rules are out and still no mention of air rules - I think we'll be waiting until the next boxed expansion at least before they arrive.

Good or bad, I'll get it! Man it looks so cool!

I bet next year we'll get Operation Harpoon or whatever became of that original idea, and then we'll finally get some aircraft and rules for them.

The biggest advantage I see for the Sturmkonig for now is as an anti-infantry and interdiction unit.

An average strike without Sustained Attack will average just shy of enough to destroy an Armor 3 infantry unit with unlimited range. Sustained Attack is enough to destroy any current Allied infantry with a single attack. That's a very significant tactical consideration, especially with the enhanced capability for Reactive Fire from Advanced Reactive Fire.

The Sturmkonig is no better than a single Ludwig in an anti-tank role, but it is significantly better than two Ludwigs in an anti-infantry role, and as an interdiction unit. Two Ludwigs give more flexibility, but trade anti-vehicle firepower for decreased anti-infantry firepower and survivability being Armor 4 instead of Armor 6. Nothing the Allies have but the Petard Mortar can currently take out a Sturmkonig with a single dice attack, but that cannot be said for the Ludwig.

Is the Sturmkonig a must take unit? Definitely not. Is it a unit that can be worth its cost for its capabilities? Definitely yes.

Some players will be more comfortable with it than others, but the capability is there for those willing to work with it.

but but but but...the Sturmtiger LOOKS AWESOME! On aesthetics alone I'll be feilding one or two.

The heavy walkers do increase the temptation to play really big battles. I prefer the Axis look, but the Allies are really nice, too.

theguildllc said:

The cool factor of the Sturmludwig is undeniable, I agree.

Yeah, it's funny, the SturmKonig is the best-looking of the heavy walkers, but I think it's also the worst stats-wise...

I hope it is very easy to change the Axis vehicles from one to the other. There's no way I'm buying 2 of each but I do want the option. The Allied heavy just looks like a swap of a single gun, so no issues there, but the Axis looks like considerably more adjustment.

I agree in the Axis side, the SturmKonig looks nicer, but overall I actually like the Allied heavy walkers more. They feel more World War II, to me. The Axis walkers look like they would belong in Star Wars just as easily as Dust Tactics.

Yeah, I'm certainly not buying two of each so I hope they are easily interchangeable. I just don't see me ever wanting to commit a couple hunderd AP on two units. The opponent would out-activate me so much it wouldn't even be funny.

The ally heavy looks very easy to swap. The axis not so much, though it still doesn't look like any of the parts would need to be glued or anything. Just swap the "arms" and the "butt".

Loophole Master said:

Yeah, it shouldn't be too hard. And as long as the guns are swappable, that's probably all I'd care about - enough to make it obvious which one the player is using is all that matters to me. (Just like I don't care if a Mickey or a Pounder has the fuel tank on the back.)

felkor said:

It's a multi-purpose mounting. It carries napalm for the Hot Dog, but extra fuel for the Mickey and Pounder. Or perhaps it opens up into a BBQ grill for when the Chef is around...

Gimp said:

The Chef comes with a BBQ ability already... =)

Wombattangofoxtrot said:

He's got the flame, and the recipes, but every good BBQ needs a grill.

I'm just too much of a mini-hoarder, I am SO planning on buying 2 of each! ( gotta have'm for Dust Warfare...eventualy...)

With the axis walker, it should be interchangable, so far all of them are ( except the Blackhawk). but contantly swapping them really wears out the peg holes. making them loose and rattley ( as has happened to my oldest Ludwig/Luther), and I'm afraid the bigger, heavier parts will "droop" and not stay on firmly.

I might just have to magnetize them, wich I havent done to any others yet. we will have to see. I cant wait till the Axis walker seen on every other page of the book as a faint background is out!! It looks like a JagdLuther armed with 2 HUGE freak'n Laser canons!! That will be very welcome on my army list!

Have fun blow'n stuff up!!

Major Headcase said:

You mean this one? http://www.dustgame.com/products_d.php?nid=2&id=40

Looks great but I´m confused how

"The energy packs powering Wotans are so bulky and cumbersome that they reduce the speed of the walker."

will work on a normal walker with move 1 ^^

Ursun said:

No double move, ever?