The reason I leaned the way I did was considering items that "prevent all sanity loss from one source." If ALL truly is ALL, then this item will not work. If it does work, then it implies that it blocked a number, so there's a number to be associated with the loss. If Harvey has 5 sanity, then ALL means 5; it can't mean 6.

But, I'm open to the idea that this loss is not preventable.

Tibs said:

Argh. I was tired when I wrote that. I agree with your points, as I meant to say "investigators lose 1 stamina per movement point after they use three" (so Michael can block it). And the "point by point" spend was meant to capture you pay as you move from one space to another (hence you can subtract one from one and get ... none!).

Hugues said:

You're welcome, Hugues ;-)

b) yeah, could be annoying, but I cannot paly it differently. Every time I have a ride to a different location, I feel like entering there during the proper phase. If I enter a location during movement, the monsters there come to party with me. Thus the arrival at a location triggers monsters' attention. Having a ride, technically, it's not different: in some way you reach a location. Monsters still should notice you, and still should swarm on you. You cannot tell them "hey, it's not the proper phase, so, here is a stick, fetch it" and be done with them. Even if the rule "monsters only in phase II" simplifies *a lot* the game, I don't feel comfortable with it, and I go in another way

c) once upon a time, it was said that you cannot patrol wagon restricted locations. Then silence fell on the Triumvirate, and since then FAQs could have been changed without us to know. But anyway. Only few cards allow you to move to locations of the Kingsport Head or to Devil Reef, and they say it explicitly. So, unless specified clearly, I play always that you cannot move there (besides, some of the "move to another area" encounters were written before the boards had restricted areas)

And as i'm reading again my previous post i noticed i forgot a "not" for reaching restricted areas

Whatever. I'm glad we discussed those points, even if i can't make a final choice, i have pros and cons. Thanks again.

Julia said:

b) do you also pick up clues in movement? as this would help the game unfairly, we play it that you move on encounter phase - you do not face monsters (and do not get to pick up clues). otherwise it would be (for us in our group):

i) move to a location with no monsters but clues, just to get the clues.
ii) move to a location with monsters (and possibly clues) with the intent to kill the monsters because-he-can
iii) move to a location with monsters and gate ONLY if judging if monsters can be killed. which, in my group, is quite rare, sadly.

thus, as you can see, it will all be favorable to the investigators if they could do that.. and that's too easy.

c) we allow investigators to get a ride to the kingsport head (usually, i don't know if we've changed that.. no-one but me wants to go there anyways, so it's not often that i get that encounter and it falls down at the same time as when i actually want to go there..)
we recently got innsmouth and have only played 3 games on the board, but already rules that you cannot access Y'ha-nthlei or Devil Reef by encounters or patrol wagon, but lost in time and space is accessable to all locations except Y'ha-nthlei.

this kind of ruling feels like the "whatever feels best for your group" kind of ruling.
to be fair.. we do rule quite a few rules thematically instead.

Okay, I have a nasty one!

-- ----

Arkham Asylum : "You are mistaken for an inmate. Doctor Mintz has the guards subdue you and conducts an experiment. Make a Will (-1) [2] check to discover the results. If you pass, the injections seem to increase your capacity for learning. Draw 1 Skill. If you fail, his memory drug fails miserably, resulting in lost knowledge. You must discard one of the following (your choice), if able: 4 Clue tokens, or 2 Spells, or 1 Skill."

I guess that if I have 0 Clue, i can't chose discarding 4 Clues and pick another choice. But what if, I have no Skills, have 1 Spell or less and have 3 Clues or less ? I'm tending to say that you must discard something. So if 0 Skill, no way i could chose to discard 1 Skill. And if I have 3 Clues and 1 Spell, i can chose between both, losing every stuff of the chosen one.

Or.... I got lucky and if I don't have the good value for any of them, I'm discarding nothing.

Hugues said:

it doesn't say "up to 4 clue tokens" .. so i guess you're only viable for that choice if you actually have 4 clues..

Taurmindo said:

b) yeah, I allow investigators to pick up clues as well. You enter a location with a monster and a clue, you kill the monster, you get the clue. No monsters? Much better. I wouldn't say, however, this help the game "unfairly". How often did it happen during a game to be allowed to move to a location from an Encounter? Not that often. Besides, most of these encounters instruct you to go to a specific location. So you need to be lucky to have some clues there, which is not that likely to happen. The only encounters allowing you to choose where to move, are those at the Newspaper or at the Station. But those locations are stable, so they do not provide you Clues after movement ends (apart some specific cases, like Hypnos power or clues located as result from Gate bursts card). So basically if I gain one clue / game in this way, I'll be lucky. Monsters on the other hand are much more often on the board (after the first three / four turns, you have many more monsters than clues on unstable locations), so I think it's by far nastier the way I play rather than "no clues and no monsters". Especially if you use these Encounters to enter guarded gates. If you don't fight monsters, then every character can enter an OW in an easy way. You just have to check whether you can seal or not, and then make up your mind. But if you have to fight, and you don't have weapons, well.. that's another story

c) not so sure you can LiTaS to Devil Reef too.. I think Avi said something about this about one year and half ago. Should check my notes

Hugues said:

It's very unlikely you don't have a skill, since all investigators start with one. Buuuut actually you could have been playing Glaaki and the Skill servant entered play. Or something similarly nasty happened to your character. The wording here could be interpreted as Taurmindo said. The "if able" clause here it's written - IMHO - to avoid loopholes like "I have no clues. I choose to discard them, so I'm not paying the price! Cool". But I'd play this card thematically: you have been given a drug. This drug destroyed your knowledge. If you have 3 clues, 1 spell, 0 skill, you should nonetheless discard something (to represent the effect of the drugs) (if it were written "discard up to 4 clues", probably somebody would have popped up saying "it's up to! so I choose to discard 1!").

Julia said:

b) well, we use the trainstation encounter where bill washington is nice to us and drives us off as perhaps the most common way to move from arkham to other cities. this is because movement doesn't reach much farther and when using dunwich is A LOT better than the brook bridge as i always manage to get arrested there.. and next step in kingsport is in a street area.. and we're fairly new to innsmouth.

so so far we use it quite often. but i can see what you're getting at. perhaps i should take up the topic again and check with the group what they want.

c) quote from innsmouth rulebook about Lost in Time and Space:

Exception: Investigators cannot return to Y’ha-nthlei
from Lost in Time and Space.

As Y'ha-nthlei is mentioned i conclude that Devil Reef is allowed to be returned to.

I agree it's far-fetched because of the skill. But it could happen for other encounters without a Skill, so I'd just like to determine a way to deal with those encounters and stick with it.

Something like : "If you have to chose between several losses to resolve the encounter, you must pick one that you can entirely fulfill (except for Stamina or Sanity). If you can't fulfill any of them, then you have to chose one of those losses and resolve it as much as possible. You can't chose losing 0 if you have at least 1 thing to lose otherwise."

I put the exception on Sanity and Stamina, because, usually, dropping to 0 Sanity or Stamina costs at lot. What do you think ?

And yeah i agree for the "up to"

Taurmindo said:

c) So did I, until I posted a report of a game I won for sheer luck while using this exploit (return from LiTaS to Devil Reef, jump into the gate, cast Find Gate and back with one doomer still to be added to I-don't-remember-what-AO) and someone said "but Julia, you cannot LiTaS to Devil Reef" ::laughter:: If only I could find the thread...

Anyway, I'd be very pleased if this was possible (and I'm with you, I still don't get why you shouldn't be allowed to)

Hugues said:

That's a very nice formulation of something too long to be included on any card ::laughter:: but yeah, it represents perfectly the way I play these situations

Julia said:

I just want to throw in with Julia here. This is how I play as well, and here's my rationale:

There's a Movement Phase, and an Encounter Phase. Granted, the Encounter Phase is broken into two separate classifications, but in general, an Investigator gets one Encounter every turn. The trick is to see the Movement Phase as somewhat "fluid", without sacrificing the rule-dependent rigidity of each individual phase. The best example of this: when Investigators enter a Gate, they aren't really having an "Arkham Encounter" even if a "Gate Appears" card fell on them. They're merely borrowing/extending their Movement Phase in order to finish moving to their actual Encounter-for-that-turn spot: some Other World.

So it's not really all that different when an Arkham Encounter tells you to "borrow" your Movement Phase to move to some other Arkham Location for your Encounter. So when you move there, you play it as the "new" end to your Movement Phase. Ending in a space with a monster, check. Ending in a space with a Clue, check. And then you have your Encounter. (Or go through the Gate that happens to be there, dragging your phantom Movement Phase out even further. )

Note that this methodology also clarifies the weird clash between a Gate opening on you during the Encounter Phase vs the Mythos Phase. Also known as, "How come I have THREE Other World Encounters when an Encounter Gate opens on me, when I still only have TWO when it's a Mythos Gate?" When it's a Mythos Gate, you've already had your Encounter for that turn, so that kind of relocation requires a special rule...but when it's an Encounter Gate, it's just "Unexpected Movement Phase Extension". (Thanks to the long-passed Millmaster, who explained this all to me.)

Just don't get clever and try to read a Tome or cast a Movement Spell, because it's NOT actually your Movement Phase. That's why I called it a "trick". (Rules Lawyers HATE tricks like that.)

Julia said:

I know that it's too long. I just want having the "good way" whatever the words for the explanation. And then, I'll know how to rule it

So, about those "relocated arkham encounter", it sounds like you're back in your end step movement phase. So dealing with monsters and/or clues. Well, I still don't like it

Hugues said:

::laughter:: but anyway, since there is not really official, feel comfortable in playing the way you like!

Jgt: thanks for sharing the Millmaster's method. I wasn't here when he was on these forum, and you brought an interesting reflection from the past