Is it possible to combine Transference with the Hydra spell to switch places with someone in a different region?

The situation:

The Prophetess is in the outer region. She casts Trasference first and imnmediately after casts the Hydra spell. She chooses that despite casting the Hydra spell, Transference should affect only herself. However she can now ignore the regional restrictions of Transference and therefore chooses to switch places with the Warrior who is at the Crown of Command.

Can she do this?

I think not.

Hydra is meant to effect other players.

other situation would be if someone has the hydra card, and someone cast tranference, the player with hydra could copy the card and tranfers back, as nothing did happen before.

You can't use Hydra Spell to copy a Spell that you're casting on yourself to have it work twice on you. It is used to copy a Spell and extend its effect to other players (or yourself, if you're not the caster).

But... if someone is in the Inner Region and switches places with someone on the CoC, you, as a third Character standing in any Region, can cast the Hydra Spell to copy Transference and use it for yourself. You can switch places with the last Character on the CoC, since Hydra ignores Region restrictions.

The_Warlock said:

Hmm. Using that logic, if player A casts Teleport in the Outer Region and player B casts Hydra Spell while on e.g. the Plain of Peril, player B can Teleport to the CoC since Hydra Spell ignores Region restictions.

Séamus Mór said:

that's not possible.

If you cast hydra in inner region to copy teleport from soneone in outer region, then the card is still saying that you can use it instead of rolling a die.

Hydra spell is not ignoring that.

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But what warlock said is possible.

I have never think about such a move. But we never play with 3 players

Séamus Mór said:

When Hydra Spell comes into question, nothing is clear. This card is a permanent bug-generator and you won't ever get around the infinite bulk of its game implications.

Hydra Spell can be used to extend the effect of another Spell to X Characters; this can be done ignoring the timing and Region restrictions. A "Region restriction" is quite easy to identify, but what's a "timing restriction"? That's not so obvious.

Comparing Transference and Teleport, you have two ways to go:

1) Timing is "movement"; both Spells are supposed to be cast when you're in the movement phase of your turn. Transference is worded to work in all Regions, Teleport is explicitly forbidden in the Inner Region (where by the way you don't roll the die for moving; the card tells the same thing twice)

2) Timing is "instead of your normal movement" for Transference and "instead of rolling the die for your movement" for Teleport.

In the first case, you can't cast Hydra Spell to duplicate Teleport and use it in the Inner Region, because it ignores timing and region restrictions but not other instructions on the card.

In the second case, both Spells can be used to reach the CoC.

I understand the arguments of Velhart, but he is assuming that the timing is as per interpretation no.1). This means that "instead of rolling the die for your movement" is not a timing restriction, but some other restriction.

I'm not very sure what to think. I know that analyzing card wording to make the Hydra Spell fit into everything is hopeless. I think this Spell was created to be a game-breaking element and it got the job done. I think that the best way to look at it is to allow everything and no be afraid to allow the excess. We received a clarification that Toadify can be extended to all Characters, including characters that are not engaging in battle with anyone. Back to our case, since you ignore that a Character must be about to make his normal move to duplicate Transference, you might also ignore that he's not going to roll a die for moving to duplicate Teleport. Might be wrong as always, but I'm convinced that Hydra Spell has to be treated very lightly, because the game designers lightly decided to put this chaos generator into the game.

The_Warlock said:

If you Hyrdra Spell the Teleport Spell, you can't use the Teleport if you are in the Inner Region. Timing restrictions means WHEN an actual Spell can be cast not WHERE. Region restrictions means Spells which specifically state a Region in their text which can then be ignored with the Hydra Spell!

Ell.

Thank you for all your thoughts. I don't know how much wiser I am now but at least I know that more people than me and my friends are confused about the hydra spell. But at least we know understand that you can only copy the first spell, not change it. Then the copies are the once that makes life difficult. We're going to sit down before our next game and discuss this again and write down our house rule for it. We usually do it like that. If we have a disagreement we usually go with the person trying to cast his spell for that game and discuss it afterwards and write down how we want it to be for future games

talismanamsilat said:

Sorry Elliott, but I don't understand your explaination. Teleport has a specifical Region restriction (not to be used in the Inner Region) and we can easily agree that Hydra Spell ignores it. The other important text is "cast instead of rolling the die for your movement". Is this a timing restriction?

If not, why? This is not a WHEN vs. WHERE situation, as it defines the moment (or game action) when the Spell needs to be cast. If you think this is not a timing restriction that can be ignored, please explain what the statement really is in game terms.

Otherwise Teleport could be copied and used in the Inner Region. Not that this is what I want, but I don't think that a messy Spell like Hydra is so easy and obvious to resolve, except when everything is allowed.

I am a bit confused too now, after reading warlock's example..

Let's say that instead of rolling a die is the timing restriction. oke hydra ignore that.

Hydra also ignores the region restriction that the spell must be cast within that region.

But hydra spell will not ignore the text that it cannot be cast in the inner region.

This is what elliot means i think

Velhart said:

But if the reading is exactly "cannot be cast in the middle region" you have a problem because what happens then if you copy the spell, which obviously was cast in another region, and you're in another region yourself. Can you then teleport to the inner region because it doesn't say anything about teleporting to inner region just casting it there...

The Watcher said:

I think that if player A is in outer region, and player B is in middle region, casting hydra. then player A is teleporting you to a space in the middle region.

It has ignore the region restriction and the instead of rolling a die text etc.

So if player A is in the Highland's, and player B is in the middle region, and cast hydra,, then player A who is in the highland cannot teleport you to the inner region

Teleport works in the same region, but it has a special text that it cannot be cast in the inner region. If someone would standing in the inner region at that moment, then the spell will not work, and then it is useless to cast hydra.

PS: it's still confusing, so i don't know if i am right, but this is how i think about it.

I wouldn't allow hydraspell on teleport, simply because it gives other players an extra turn with the teleporting which it should not.

Nidhögg said:

It's indeed a waste of time, because the player who cast teleport can decide where he is teleporting the other player, if that player cast hydra.

He could simply send you to the chasm or desert in the middle region or to a graveyard or worse, depending where that player is.