Questions to the Attack Combat Rules

By Alox, in Black Crusade Rules Questions

A few questions:

1) Two weapon attack is two half actions? Giving the exception to the rule on only one attack action per round?

2) "All out attack" states that it is one attack (unspecified); can that be swift and lightning attack? And how does that combine with Charge allowing all out attack?

3) Can a character do an attack action as the first half action, and then Guarded action as the next half action to enjoy +10 reaction bonus till his next turn? (and why is it called Guarded ATTACK in the chart when its called Guarded ACTION in the text?)

1) No. You may make an additional attack as part of your attack action. This is stated at the end of the descriptions of all applicable attack actions that may be used while attacking with both weapons.

Example: Lightning Attack: ...............If the attacker is wielding a second weapon in his off hand, he may make an additional attack, as part of this action. See Two Weapon Fighting on page 242.

This is found at the end of the description of the Lighting Attack Action and at the end of every other attack you can use this way.

2) I´m clueless on this one myself, sorry. Since Charge states clearly which attacks you can use at the end of the move and All Out Attack only says a single attack, I guess that´s what it is one Strike at (+30) to hit. Wouldn´t surprise me, I know "All Out Attack" as pretty much of a let down in other systems aswell. But I´m not sure at all.

3) The penalty includes all WS and BS tests made this turn . So no.

2. When you charging (+20 WS) you can use all out attack (+30 WS) so you are geting +50 WS for a single hit and if you chave furious assault you can spend reaction to have second attack, and if you have step aside you can have one attack more all with bonus +50. Not bad and if you add some more talents like Thunder charge or hammer blow it's getting really scary ;] I can already see some space marine guy with jump pack and Thunder hammer who charge and use all out attack and make pulp of his enemy ;D

coolzyg said:

2. When you charging (+20 WS) you can use all out attack (+30 WS) so you are geting +50 WS for a single hit and if you chave furious assault you can spend reaction to have second attack, and if you have step aside you can have one attack more all with bonus +50. Not bad and if you add some more talents like Thunder charge or hammer blow it's getting really scary ;] I can already see some space marine guy with jump pack and Thunder hammer who charge and use all out attack and make pulp of his enemy ;D

but can this attack be a stun, takedown, lightning attack, swift attack, knock down (well that would'nt serve anything). It's pretty sweet. you have killing strike and brutal charge you get +60WS, and for 1 IP, an un-evadable attack.

So with Step Aside with Hammer Blow that would be 3x +60 WS, first Hammer Blow unevadable, check for stun (TG-20), after that you can hit him with unother Hammer Blow (again, un-evadable if you have th IPs) again TG Test -20 and if you want to a third time? -> lol

Also: Thunder Charge. Do you catch a free hit from every guy you target with it?

Imo you can´t get a third "All Out Attack" by comining "Furious Assault" with "Step Aside".

Step Aside clearly states: In effect this, gives the character a second Reaction, that may only be used for Dodge and Parry attempts.

@ Thunder Charge: No, characters are not considered to be in melee with targets they barrel through using thunder charge.. However if the character using thunder charge is in melee already, and wants to charge somebody else, enemies in melee with him would get free attacks on him for not leaving melee via disengage action. I´d say they´d not get free attacks if our charger manages to knock em down though (Leaving Melee, doesn´t say when exactly the attack is delivered), but that´s my personal take on it.

coolzyg said:

2. When you charging (+20 WS) you can use all out attack (+30 WS) so you are geting +50 WS for a single hit and if you chave furious assault you can spend reaction to have second attack, and if you have step aside you can have one attack more all with bonus +50. Not bad and if you add some more talents like Thunder charge or hammer blow it's getting really scary ;] I can already see some space marine guy with jump pack and Thunder hammer who charge and use all out attack and make pulp of his enemy ;D

That's another thing which might need clarification in the FAQ/Errate: The charge description doesn't add +20 to WS, but it does on the table. I'm not sure which one to go for.

Rakatung said:

coolzyg said:

2. When you charging (+20 WS) you can use all out attack (+30 WS) so you are geting +50 WS for a single hit and if you chave furious assault you can spend reaction to have second attack, and if you have step aside you can have one attack more all with bonus +50. Not bad and if you add some more talents like Thunder charge or hammer blow it's getting really scary ;] I can already see some space marine guy with jump pack and Thunder hammer who charge and use all out attack and make pulp of his enemy ;D

That's another thing which might need clarification in the FAQ/Errate: The charge description doesn't add +20 to WS, but it does on the table. I'm not sure which one to go for.

In every other game, it's +20. I go on the basis that it still is +20, but the bit that says it in the description was cut out when they replaced it with explaining what combat actions could be used on a Charge.

MILLANDSON said:

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In every other game, it's +20. I go on the basis that it still is +20, but the bit that says it in the description was cut out when they replaced it with explaining what combat actions could be used on a Charge.

No, in every other game it's +10, not 20.

I asked the same question some time ago, and No-1 came up with a reply that I found pretty balanced and easy to remember.

You can do one of the following after making a charge move: Make a standard attack at +20 (+10 from charging, +10 from standard attack), make a swift attack at +10 (+10 from charging, +0 from swift attack) and make an all-out attack at +40 (+10 from charging, +30 from all out attack).

I'm not saying this is an official answer, but since No-1 actually worked on the book, he's probably got a little more insight into what makes the system tick and what keeps it balanced tha the rest of us. I'm happy with this ruling anyway.

Sorry, yea, the other games have +10.

However, the system does seem to have been tweaked to make melee combat more effective, and during all the time I playtested the game with my 4-5 playtesters, we never found being able to get a good hit in on the charge to be that much of a problem (as it means it's +30 for a single attack, +20 for a swift attack, or +10 for lightning attacks).

Before then, melee was a lot weaker than ranged.