Well I have decided to limit combine fire in a sceanrio im working on by coming up with a new operations card. I wanted to call it lack of tank radios but since that has already been taken ill call it Soviet command tanks. I will also use the normal combine fire rules for TOI eg half FP.

Well for the most part of the war russian tanks were not fitted with radio to comunicate with each other, mainly a command tank had a 2 way and all other tanks could only receive messages. The german tactic was to try and take out the command tanks at the start of the battle so that the other tanks were on their own without direction from a commander. So :

Soviet Command Tanks:

Mark "X" number of Soviet tanks with a Soviet control marker (these are considered command tanks)

Soviet tanks may only perform combine fire actions if a non fatigued command tank has LOS to the target of the attack.

The command tank may take part in the attack, if the command tank dose not take part it is not fatigued.

"X" number is the number outlined in the special rules.

So this is to replicate the command tanks co-ordinating an attack otherwise it was almost every tank for its self (in effect the massive confussion card)

This is along the lines of what i was hoping the lack of tank radios card would be.

Aussie_Digger said:

I also thought that lack of tank radios would restrict combined fire and maybe force tanks to stay together, say, within two or three hexes of another tank.

Heres my idea for representing the matchup of the German platoon vs Russian company that typically was the situation on the Eastern front.

Russian:

1.One CF attack may be made with up to 9 units but only if there is at least 1 command vehicle (tank or halftrack) adjacent to vehicles participating, and at least 1 squad with an officer, adjacent to any squads participating. If it is a mix of squads and vehicles, then both a command vehicle and an officer squad are required to be adjacent to their respective same type units.

2.All units participating, must be adjacent to each other or in same hex together. The command vehicle/officer squad may be part of the attack, or may be just adjacent but not necessarily in LOS of the target hex. If not in LOS of target hex, the command unit(s) may not add in with the CF attack. This may be an option the Russian player wants to use so that his command unit is not immediately exposed to direct fire.but satisfies the requirement (1) necessary to conduct the CF attack.

German:

3. Up to 5 units may CF, if at least one of the units is within 5 hexes of a Command vehicle(tank or halftrack), OR a squad with an officer. Any mix of units is possible with either Command vehicle or officer squad, and each unit must be with 3 hexes of each other and to at least one unit which is within 5 hexes of the Command unit. The command unit does not have to have LOS to the target hex. The Command vehicle/or squad may opt to become a 6th unit added in with the 5 unit CF, if it does have LOS and is within its type units normal range.

General rule modification for CF attacks: If a player decides to conduct a CF attack in his action phase, all his actions must be expended to do so., after which the CF attack is executed and resolved, his action phase ends, and the opposing player then is the active player.

All units participating in CF attacks add +1 per unit, to the lead units full Attack value ( this might be modified for KingTigers to +2).

Also just thought of "transferable" command counter. So you mark the tank, halfrack (or truck?) as the command vehicle. If the vehicle gets destroyed, the "commander" may survive on some kind of die roll, maybe 1,2,3,4 if in tank, 1,2,3 if in halftrack, or 1,2 in truck. If the Command counter survives, it may be assigned(attached) to another vehicle or squad that moves into its same hex., after which that unit is the new Command unit.

i have made this rule this way (for this scenario) to show the lack of communication between the soviet tanks, they relied on information from the command tank as the other tanks could not communicate with each other to coordinate attacks

I have left the germans to make combine fire as per the toi rules as all tanks could communicate and coordinate their attacks, they were also expected to use their initative even if they were not the commander.

Plus this keeps things simple and easy to understand, i don't want a whole page in the scenario explaining 1 special rule.

I should point out that the scenario is a battle where around 65 - 70 T34's attempted to break through a lightly defended part of the german lines in the Ukraine in 1943 in an attempt to capture 3 villages. There was a SS panther company that made their way to the area and set up an ambush on the T34's.

I have scaled down the engagment as there arnt that many tanks to use. I have kept it at around the 3:1 odds in the russian favor so 14 t34's and 5 panthers.

So the ruling i have made is to highlight the soviets weakness in communicating with each other and highlighting the germans ability to cooridinate their attacks

If I have 5 panthers vs 15 T-34s, the LAST thing that I am going to do is use CF. The Panther normal range should be 10 (88flak should be 12) and the defense value of 6 at least (it had same 4.5 inch actual front plate as did Tiger 1 AND it was sloped, giving it essentially 6 inch thickness).

I think a better way to represent the radio coordination and independence of German tank commanders, which gives a unit more ablility to react quickly, is to let the 5 German Panthers conduct a Fire and Move action with say just -1 or -2 off Attack strength. rather than halfstrength.Via radio, they spot the enemy sooner, thus gunner acquires target sooner, and more shots fired in the same amount of time than the less coordinated Russian tank platoon, with 2 tanks relying and waiting on direction from their 3rd platoon leader tank, which itself is waiting for the company commander for orders.

VolksCamper said:

I wouldn't be so quick to say that as it could come in very handy to stop the russians in gaining a victory objective or exit the board (trying to make a sure kill on the unit that is about to meet some to the scenario's objectives) as the scenario is not just an open feild where everyone will have LOS.

The 75mm gun of the panther had more penatratiing power (its round traveled at a higher velocity) than the 88mm thus i have found in most games the panther has had a slightly longer range.

I think you will find with TOI when they come up with the armour values they take into account the armour values of all sides of the tank, although the panther had around the same protection as the tiger on the front its side and rear were more along the lines of the panzer IV where the tiger had thicker armour all round.

Aussie_Digger said:

This is a great and simple solution and indeed better represents reality than the actual op card that comes with the game. I just might use this rule in one of my future scenarios!

The rule as written on the available card could also work if it weren't for the fact that in most scenarios paying the 1 command is not a problem. Keeping your command tanks alive and getting them into LOS of the enemy is a lot harder!

hey Aussie-Digger nice card idea. i'd love to know how it plays for you.

the Panther's 75 had a longer range than the Tiger's 88 and the Hitting power was similiar as both tended to destroy what the hit. the Panther's hitting power was due to the speed of the shot fired

BJaffe01