So this came up in a friendly game last night, and we weren't quite sure how it goes. When you are resolving a claim with a value greater than one, is each individual target of a claim a separate framework event? Or is choosing all the targets part of the same framework event?

An example might help: last night, I was playing my Greyjoy deck with the Knights of the Hollow Hill agenda. I have Maester Wendamyr in play, and my friend wins a military challenge with a claim of 2 against me. If resolving each target is handled as a separate framework event, I can choose Wendamyr to fulfill the first claim, use his ability to save himself, then use the 2 influence from the agenda to stand himself, and end the first framework event. Then the second event begins, I chose Wendamyr as the target, then he uses his ability to save himself in the save/cancel step, and the second event ends.

If choosing targets is all one large framework event, then in this case I would have to choose Wendamyr and someone else, then in the save step Wendamyr could save himself (and stand if I kneel the 2 influence), and I better hope I have a Risen from the Sea or something else to save character #2.

Which is correct?

The claim resolution happens at once, and both are chosen in that framework action. You must choose two separate targets for the claim.

However, as Maester Wendamyr's entire ability is a "Save/cancel" response, you can save him, resolve his ability to completion (including the kneeling two influence to stand him), then kneel him again to save another character, all before you move on to the next step your framework actions.

What may be confusing you here is that even though claim is initiated just the one time - and so all targets of a 2+ military claim are chosen at the same time, preventing you from choosing the same character to die twice for the same 2-claim challenge - you have a separate, individual opportunity to save each of those characters between the claim's initiation and resolution. This is really no different than any other "mass kill" effect. Think of Valar. ALL characters are killed at the same time, but you get the chance to save them individually.

And, of course, the person triggering the save effect gets to choose the order in which they save the characters. So, as Istaril points out, you could choose to save Wendamyr first, invoking the part of the save that stands him, and therefore have him available to save the second character. Of course, if you use Wendamyr to save the other guy first, there is no way he'll be standing to save himself second.

Anyway, point to remember: Even when 1 effect kills multiple characters (including high-claim military challenges), there is a separate, individual save opportunity for each character, meaning that those characters effectively need to be saved one at a time.

OK, thank you very much for the replies.

Sorry to bring this topic back up again but this is the only thread i could find close to my situation

had a game in the weekend and one player had a targaryen dragon deck with 3 dragons out, one had 4 duplicates (using hatchlings) one had two and one had none

i did a claim 3 military challenge against him and he went and removed 2 dups from one char and then 1 from another thus not having to kill his dragon without a dups.

I argued that such a thing couldn't happen as people cant be chosen more than once, but this player and others argued against saying that they could, who would be correct?

cheers

Korvac-V said:

High-claim Military Challenges (pg. 22)
If, during a military challenge, the defending
player loses a challenge, and the attacking player
has a claim of 2 or higher, the defending player
must kill the required number of different characters,
all at once. Thus, the defender may not
choose to kill the same character multiple times,
even if that character could be saved.

That last line is exactly what your opponent did when he discarded 2 dupes off of a single character after losing a 3-claim military challenge; he chose to kill, and save, the same dragon twice.

(Dupes are save effects. The only way that a save effect can be applicable is when a character is about to die - one save for each death. The only way that a character is about to die after losing a military challenge is if it is chosen to be killed for claim. So, in order to need to discard 2 dupes in a military challenge, the character would need to be about to die twice, which would mean it was chosen to die twice. And it's right there in black-and-white that you can't do that.)

Hope that helps, and gives a reference with which to refute their arguments.