As we all know the Maester's path agenda does not count if time limit is reached. Does the Melisandre from the core set when the game is over, that she stops the opponents having power in their characters and win with them, still counts or not? If i have 8 power in my house and 7 in a character do i win when time limit is reached and melisandre is in play from an opponent?

GioKarab said:

First, no one "wins" when time is reached. In a tournament, the person close to their "victory total" is given a modified win, but a modified win is not the same as a win. And, quite honestly, it has no bearing on games played outside of a tournament. But then, neither does the time limit.

Second, notice that the rules say the modified win goes to the person closest to their victory total . The Maester Agenda does not change the amount of power needed to win or the way that amount of power is counted, so it doesn't factor into the determination of a modified win. But Mel does affect victory total by saying which power does and doesn't get counted. So her effect is part of the determination of a modified win.

Ok Ktom let me be the devil's advocate and say this.

first of all i m talking about a melee tournament. so there are no modified wins as i presume when time limit is reached.

Secondly i strongly believe that if the agenda of the maester gets blanked when time limit is reached so is Melisandre. Let me elaborate.

Take for example the North agendas. When time limit is reached do they count? YES

Maester's pathe Agenda counts? NO

As i see it cards that affect the power you need to win like the North agendas and like for example Summer Tax count. But cards like Maester's path and Mellisandre get blanked at the end cause they dont reduce/increase card power you need to win.

To continue i will also like to add that when the game is over Melisandre is not something we need to consider. The game is over and we just count the power everyone has and thats it. I think thats the concept of Fantasy Flight.

My opinion

GioKarab said:

What I mentioned before is FFG's view on it. When time limit is over, you are just looking at the "victory total." When calculating the victory total, there are two parts of the equation: 1) How much power a player has won during the round and, 2) Any effects active at the end of the game that determine how that victory total is counted.

It is not going to help to think of the Maester Agenda as being "blanked" at the end of the game. Nothing is "blanked," "undone," or "forgotten." Rather, you look at the two parts of "victory total." Does the Maester Agenda, in saying that the player cannot win while there are chains on the Agenda, say anything about how much power the player won during the round? No? How about does it say anything about what the player's victory total actually is and what does and doesn't count toward it? No? Well, then it is a non-factor in the entire determination of "victory total."

How about The North Agendas? Do those say anything about how power is won during the round? No? How about does it say anything about what the player's victory total actually is and what does and doesn't count toward it? Yes? OK, so they are a factor.

Now, how about Mel? Does she say anything about how power is won during the round? Well, kind of. She says that power on opponent's characters does not count the same as the power on their House. How about does she say anything about what the player's victory total actually is and what does and doesn't count toward it? Absolutely she does. It doesn't get much more directly stated than "Power on opponents' characters does not count towards their total power." So she's a factor here because she is specifically telling you how "total power" (ie, "victory total") is counted.

Don't think of it as blanking. Think of it as a process or check - some things affect it, some things don't.

But don't take my word for it. Send it to FFG and see what they say.

I have no problem of taking your word for it cause for the most part every answer you have given me so far stands true

So i won't contact FFG and accept your answer I needed a correct answer because there is a melee tournament right now as we speak and we face this problem.

Thanx again Ktom

If yo didn't take KTom's word for it, I don't know who's word you would take!

What happens in a melee tournament in the following situation? A game reaches the time limit and 2 (or more) players are tied for closest to victory total.

Khudzlin said:

Wouldn't both players be awarded a modified win?

Khudzlin said:

As described in the tournament rules, when the game ends in melee (either by someone winning or by time being reached), you rank all the players by their victory totals. If people have the same, they get the same rank. Then everyone gets 3 points for each person with a lower rank than them, 1 point for each person with the same rank as them, and 1 bonus point is awarded to the person who won the table.

So if Player A had 14 power, Players B & C had 8 power each, and Player D had 4 power, the point totals would be:

• A = 10 points (3 points for each of the players with lower rank, plus 1 for winning the table)
• B = 4 points (3 points for being higher than D, 1 point for being the same as C)
• C = 4 points (3 points for being higher than D, 1 point for being the same as B)
• D = 0 points (since there is no one with a lower rank)

But if the victory totals were the following (asssuming no agenda modifies the amount of power needed):

• A has 14 power
• B has 14 power
• C has 9 power
• D has 4 power

Would the points be as follows:

• A gets 7 points
• B gets 7 points
• C gets 3 points
• D gets 0 points

?

Yes, that would be the math involved.

And yes, you correctly determined that the 1 bonus point for winning the table is only awarded to someone who is ranked higher than all 3 of his or her opponents.

Thanks for the answer. It probably happens only once in a blue moon, but I know someone who's writing software to handle joust and melee tournaments, so all corner cases have to be covered.

If you make this software for joust and melee tournaments it would be great to share it cause only pen and paper works for me right now for melee

That's the eventual goal (once it's ready).

Another question came up: if a 4 player melee goes to time, does the winner (assuming no ties) get the 1 point bonus for winning the table?

Yes. You are considered to have "won" the table if you are ranked highest (not tied) at time limit.

Thanks for the answer.