Recently a friend of mine read Path of the Warrior and came upon the realization that apparently Eldar weapons use psychic triggers to operate. While I trust his opinion and such, this impacts the game such that Eldar weaponry cannot be used by humans because they lack the proper psychic attunement. I thought I'd ask the opinions of the forum goers since other people here know more fluff than I.

Neo-Rook said:

Even though it's a Gav Thorpe book I wouldn't accept the description. Authors often insert things into books that aren't kosher. The best way to deal with this is to look upon the mechanics and description of the weapon in the relevant book, and looking at the RT main book there is no mention of such a rule.

So you can just ignore it, it's just a vision of one author.

Or run with the idea. Potential solutions: the Exotic Weapon Training for the item includes training in how to think like an Edlar to activate it (it is made with wraithbone and in direct contact with the weilder after all) or that the weapon has been modified to add a normal human trigger mechanism.

A cool fluff tidbit that shuts down character options isn't so cool anymore. Feel free to ignore it.

How would that even work for the Dark Eldar? Dark Eldar not being able to use basic Eldar weaponry is in my opinion downright ridiculous.

The lore of Warhammer 40k is often contradictory and absolutely enormous. In the end, you have to filter some of the stranger or more retarded stuff out to preserve some manner of consistency and sense. I'm alright with the whole "eldar weapons have psychic triggers" , but I'd just rule them as being unusable by untouchables and nulls; not humans on average, since almost all humans has some manner of psychic potential.

It is quite possible they have both psychic triggers and normal triggers. There is enough wierd stuff that would muck about with psychic signals that you would want a manual override.

Or it could only be that specific set of Aspect Warrior weapons that have psychic triggers.

Actually if you look in the "lure of the expanse" adventure for RT it DOES support the idea of psychic triggers to some extent.

Ie an Eldar Witchblade is a standard power sword when in the hand of a non-Eldar but in the hands of an Eldar it gains the Eldard's psy rating in pen and triples the wielders strength bonus (again IF they're eldar).

So with that said maybe you shouldn't make it so they "don't work at all" but rather than "they just don't work as efficiently" when not wielded by an Eldar.

Or they could just be upgrades that offer other bonuses. Humans have them. Orks have them. Why wouldn't Eldar have them? I'd say that they can be kill-switches or identity detectors -- common ones require a being to have a psy rating of at least 1 to fire, while good quality ones can only be used by the Eldar they're attuned, possibly allowing a Hellish Willpower test to bypass them.

Or it could be that they just have a psychic trigger and the user must understand to "Think Russian" to fire, or "Think Eldar" in this case.

Alternatively, it could be that the Eldar weapons have the psychic trigger, but just like the Holo-Field in Rogue Trader is modified to work for Imperial vessels, with Imperial power sources and by imperial cogitator commands, the human-useable versions of Eldar weaponry might have an add-on that triggers a psychic fire-command when a trigger is pressed.

Nothing I have ever read makes me think that Eldar gear requires Psykers; maybe to be Eldar (the witchblade, for instance), but other than rune armor, which cares for both traits, nothing else says "psyker". I also question everyone saying all Eldar are psykers. These aren't the Grey Knights, here. Certainly, the Eldar have their fair share of psykers, and some of the most powerful, as well, and I suppose their psyches might be stronger, since they can't travel through the Warp, but from my books, Dire Avengers, their Exarchs, rangers, pathfinders, Eldar corsairs (one of whom even has resistance), none of them have a listed Psy Rating. They might have weapons with them that have psy-triggers (it looks like Serrenon is wearing his shuriken pistol on his wrist, to free up hands for his singing spear-variant wraith blade (LotE, p.131), and so he could shoot it without holding it), but most of them aren't psykers, anymore than most humans. That's why many aren't affected by psyk-out grenades, why they have psyker units. Mostly it's just that wraithbone is a psychoactive plastic, and so their psykers can do amazing things with it.

Much of their gear doesn't even require either trait. Inquisitor Helynna Valeria (new Codex GK, p.47 and 86), for instance, has several xenos relics, many of them Eldar, and no psy-rating. Madam Charlabelle, from Lore of the Expanse (p.25 and 125) uses a Harlequin's Kiss, and she is no Eldar, or psyker, either.

I'd say if a player wants to use Eldar weapons, can find one, and if they are willing to pay out the ass for the Elite Advance to acquire the proficiency, and they can find replacement ammo, AND they are willing to put up with the social stigmas from both sides (Imperial law likely forbids use of Eldar weapons, and some of your crew might be staunch supporters, the better to keep the Warrant of Trade active, while the Eldar one might encounter might wonder where you got it from, whether you rifled through their dead, or, even worse, actually killed an Eldar for it.) let them go for it. If they can play all that up and through, and think that a shuriken pistol is really that much better than anything else available (bolt pistols have to be easier to get, hit slightly harder, with equal pen, have better range, use up less ammo, though they carry less, reload faster, and are tearing), let them; it's a nice way to flesh out, and stand out their character, against all of the other Rogue Traders and crews around. Chances are, unless they break further Imperial law, and become friends with the Eldar (good luck), finding replacement ammo for the thing will be a pain, possibly even requiring further negative encounters with Eldar, who will eventually do something about it. If you can get your player to somehow have Peer/Good Rep (Eldar or Craftworld _______), and have the gun, ammo is easy, and have fun.

venkelos said:

Having a Psy Rating and being a psyker aren't necessarily the same thing.

All Eldar (barring the Dark Eldar, in whom the capability has atrophied) are psychically sensitive, and their technology is strongly psychoreactive as an extension of that, being designed to be handled and used by psychic beings. For an Eldar to be able to interact with or manipulate the energies of the Warp on any significant level (to gain Psy Rating, in game terms) requires only training.

Humans also have a baseline level of psychic ability, though this varies considerably and the majority of people will never amount to more than the most subtle and unconscious of manifestations, normally revealing themselves as odd moments of fortune, gut instincts and so forth. In the Eldar, though the bulk of their potential is suppressed through training in childhood (to avoid the predations of She Who Thirsts), they still possess a considerable amount of innate power, and culturally have always employed the basic empathic and telekinetic capabilities to shape their surroundings and interact with the world around them. Even the most unassuming member of the Eldar race (once again, barring the Dark Eldar in whom this psychic talent has been deliberately left to atrophy) has a psychic presence of sufficient magnitude that they remain conscious and self-aware after death and can study to turn that presence into a practical ability to perceive and influence the energies of the Warp.

The way their depicted in fluff, the Eldar are all psychically sensitive to some degree. While it wouldn't necessarily be enough to give them an automatic psy rating, I'd say that it'd certainly justify any Elder who bothered gaining a psy rating and and a few minor powers, just like an Adept can do so later in life.

Okay, I can go with that. Eldar were crafted, as it were, by the Old Ones to be psychic, and that is why all Eldar avoid the Warp (also a good excuse to prevent too amny Rogue Traders from having a rogue Eldar on their ship, if you like Warp travel.) Still, for the purposes of this thread, I'd say nothing in their write-ups, even in the fluff, says that Humans can't use Eldar weapons. If you have a Shuriken Catapult, and it has power, and you have ammo for it, you can certainly use it. If you pay a bunch of XP, and you practice, practice, practice, you should be able to pick up ExWP (Shuriken Catapult), and even use it with proficiency. If you are VERY lucky, you might make an acquaintance, and have access to more ammo, in addition to actual training, which your GM might prefer for you to get the weapon talent. Enough existing fluff suggests that any Human with hands can use most any Eldar weapon, at least till its out of what makes it work, be that a battery, or ammunition.

And yet. the very process of acquisition means you are assumed to have a stable line of ammunition for said weapon.

venkelos said:

I'd say the second part is harder than the first part. Getting ammo for Eldar weapons means dealing with the Eldar directly or the cold trade. Both are things that Rogue Traders and Inquisitors can do, but it's difficult to get and raises interesting questions and red flags.

At that point, one must define "Acquisition". If you mean "hey I got this cool gun offa this alien I killed", then no it doesn't mean you have steady ammo; you have what he had on him. If you use the Profit Factor/Influence systems to acquire it, then that would mean you probably have access to more ammo, from the same source, I'd guess, if he can keep it in stock. If you can make the Skill checks to find a "vendor" (and I'd hope that your GM makes it at least a bit of a game doing that, with several varied skills), and you can make the -20 to -50 Acquisition check (depends on how your GM rates rarity and quality of sought weapon, and how the vendor feels about it), you have a shuriken catapult, with clip. I'd make you have to make additional Acq. tests to get more ammo, as killing an Eldar gets you a gun, but you might have to kill several over time, or actually know one who is agreeable to part with ammo to keep it in stock. The ammo is as rare as the gun, if not more so, so if you fail, that's how the vendor says "sorry, I don't have any clips, right now. No Eldar have gone through, lately." With exotic toys like these, that most people can't just go out and get, you sometimes have to say "no, you don't just magically have refreshing ammo stocks of this weapon." That's part of what makes it a cool plot bit of the game, and also maybe why everyone doesn't sport Eldar weapons out in the Expanse.

Errant said:

That is a good point; still, the GM can make use of Upkeep tests to limit the overall availability of ammo for an exotic Xenos weapon that can't be replicated with Imperial Technology, depending on use and overall PF.

Personally, I'd have it come down to role play in that situation. Good relations with a reliable cold trade source or the Eldar would negate the need for an upkeep test; otherwise they're necessary to get more ammo.