so the party decided to install the old navigator in the navigator seat as a means of torture,, they hooked him up to a liffe support system and want him to stay there till death,, how quickly do you reckon that will come,, if they do their best to prolong the suffering? bear in mind that the explorer is in essence a logican and that they wish to use the navigator to go places without him plotting a course for the nearest sun! that is, they wish to feed him large doses of mind altering hypnotic drugs to make him comply with their wishes...

ideas?

! :?

hmm. well, you'd have to have some servitors or servo-skulls up in the nacelle to open and close his third eye-lid, since there's no way in hell you could trust him to have voluntary control over it, especially if he could turn his gaze on himself... but with best-quality life support you could keep him alive for decades. Of course, he'd be completely out of his mind before long.

You want a navigator of his face on halucinogenic drugs to plot your course through the warp?!? I hope your starship insurance is fully paid up!

yes, i was thinking some serious brainsurgery might also help, like removing fear and emotions in general etc etc,,actually i think he'll end up a brain in a jar of course the pc keep other loyal navigators on standby to check up on his calculations and stuff,, i think it could quite easily be done,, and its a delightfully evil idea!

thanx for the input!

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any inputs on how many corruption points he'd gain in the process and eventually per journey through the warp,, they wouldn't want him to chaos spawn too soon!! ?

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! : ? said:

How weak are the Navigators in your RT milieu? I was under the impression that the Navigator guilds were quite powerful and influential. While there might be individual Navigator families having hard luck times, I cannot see Navigators in general sitting back and accepting the torture death of one of their putative brothers. I believe there would be retaliation, so possibly it may really be how quickly the end will come for the PCs.

! : ? said:

If there was a way to do this, then in the last 10,000 years, someone would have done it to break the power of the Navigators. In the grimdark of the WH40K universe, each independent and willful Navigator represents one element of the ability for each starship to find its way through the Warp. Remove that, and change the background greatly. Which is not to say that you shouldn't do it, but should be mindful of what it means to have been done.

As for how long the Navigator could live, why, that would be based on Medicae successes and Medicae support technology available. With high-tech hospital level support, possibly you could keep the Navigator going for a long time while being tortured. I wouldn't put it past the grimdark to have come up with well-known torture methods allowing for extensive life preservation. The Inquisition probably specializes in it.

Yeah, your player are aiming for suicide.

1- The Navigator just does not sne dthem in a star. Well as you say they may try but any brain alteration may also mean a hidding spot for a deamon.

2- The Navogator Houses will see this as an affront to them ALL. Pissing off the whole navigator society, nto a good idea, I would probably hav ea little chat with the navigator pc. Just look at the technology that allows the ship to navigate without Navigators, it is stated that the various hous will go at any extend to destroy/capture the ship. Now think about what would happen if you find a way to create lobotomized navigator... everyone would want one!

The navigators houses will hunt them like cockroaches, crush hem, kill them, strip them and then expose them to the stuff of the warp... twice.

a little more info on the campaign is in order,, the navigator in the mercy seat is an x-player, and (after his wife's death) intermediary leader of a navigator house.. him ending up in the seat is due to a war within his family.. he has been usurped by his son who has now taken complete control of the house. his son and the rogue trader along with the senechal and explorer character are highranking temple tendency agents.. the navigator house is now a completely loyal temple tendency house.. the x-player refused to join the temple after he discovered the fact that his son had killed his wife and numerous family member in a purge to eradicate the house of all non temple tendency members... the pc's are of course not going to let any other non-temple navigators close to the mercy seat.. the pc's are quite aware of the fact that he'd die sooner or later, but have been ordered from up high in the temple tendency to commit this act as a test of faith,, and, well they're quite an evil party who loves a good torture as any other i figure giving the x-player d10 insanity points per travel through the empyrian and 2d10 for the initial ritual of being placed in such a device,, i'm definately counting on some sort of demonic infestation sooner or later, and the pc's are too,, hence they'll be doing preperations for binding the demon once it shows up to put it to good uses..... on top of that d10 corruption points to each temple tendency player involved in the delightfully evil act seems in order!

thanx for your interest!

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crisaron said:

QFT.

A Navigator doesn´t only plot a course, he guides the ship trough the warp, and is a delicate job. A druged navigator could not do it. Also, the navigator does not net to plot a course to a sun, he only has to not tell the captain that a sudden warp storm comes to destroy the ship.

Also, Actions as you described would cause, at least, to be declared the PC Navigators House Renegade. More probably, to actively pursued and purged. The Navigator Houses survive trough a carefully controlled breeding program, killing lots of Navigators is a crime and a waste of resources that nor the Houses, nor the Navy, nor the Administratum, nor the Inquisition, is going to ignore.

! : ? said:

Ouch the whole plan seems a great recipe for disaster

1) having a tortured insane navigator at the helm deosn't strike me as a sensible option. even if they try to wire some loyalty programming to make she he does as told, it's really chancy

2) How the hell are they planning ot bind a demon when they're reduced to using the navigator as a bit to catch whatever comes knocking ? They may as well end up with a lowly imp (not much trouble, but not much utility) as wit ha major demon (and a whole lot of trouble - biding that sort of cirtters is anyhting buyt an amateur's game.

rather then having him be forced to Navigate, which is silly and dangerous, why not force him to remain gazing into the Warp? Probably an infinitely greater punishment with zero chance of backfiring (besides the obvious risk of a Warp intrusion). Moreover, why not remove his Third Eye, blind his normal sight, remove his tongue, puncture his ear drums, and burn out his nerve endings. Then have the other psykers in your crew bombard his now rather helpless psyche with the most dastardly nightmares they can imagine while your friendly neighbourhood temple tendency Genetor inserts some sort of stimulating probe into the pain centre of his brain and THEN hook him up to life support, leaving him with nothing but agony for the next few decades.

That's a torture.