rayze said:

Hi! While this is a nice "picture", I wonder if their is an actual "league function difference" between the two. Or is the point you and the one before you trying to bring across that the "Suffering Marshal" acts out official death sentences while the Mortiurge is carrying out non-sanctioned hits that where just deemed necessary by the Arbites-in-Command?

Our gaming group does not use advancement schemes anymore and we have thrown a lot of skills out so we're just using careers as a background option who gives you your starting skills. Works more like Black Crusade if you know what I mean?

Seems like much of this book focus on things that I do not use, a bit dissapointing but as I want information about enforcers and the criminal underworld I'll check it out anyway, Lucky for you FFG

Focuses? It's one chapter in the book.

BYE

H.B.M.C. said:

That's good to hear, although almost every post in this thread seemed to be about careers so I thought that was the case.

The rest of the book is a detailed armoury, a whole chapter for investigation rules, two mainly background only chapters (about the Arbites themselves, the Arbites in the Calixis Sector, the 'Most Wanted'), and then an adventure. Plus the new background packages/career ranks/Cell Directives.

BYE

H.B.M.C. said:

Most Wanted? are these the same as we have in DotDG or some more Arbite focused ones?

Acernis Taine said:

More Arbites; one's a Noble killer from Scintilla, another is a #2 from a agri-world who's slicing off the top; no really Heretical people, just that they are breaking the Lex Imperialis. Less 'action' opponenet than investigative ones for me at least.

It's a good book overall, but not without its flaws.

There are quite a lot of typos in the fluff section, which obviously doesn't break the deal, but can sometimes really harm the flow of prose and make it tricky to read quick.
Also, I already posted about it in the Gamemasters section, but the 'standard' Arbites shotgun in the new book is very, very powerful. Whether they're supposed to be that strong, or it's a typo, has yet to be confirmed.

One complaint I had is that there's very little *spoiler warning*. What I mean is that there are seemingly innocuous sections, mainly in the "Calixian Underworld", that can full on spoil any campaign to do with some of the bigger players in the Disciples of the Dark Gods book. This is not a bad thing in any way, but if you're like me, who have players (against my very firm wishes) downloading PDFs of everything in sight and reading through it all without asking me, just be careful as the section quite boldly and without preamble tells you who are behind certain big criminal organizations and conspiracies.

Finally, I was a tad disappointed in the selection of material for Scum. We went in 3 ways on this, me as GM, our arbitrator character, and our scum. He definitely came out of it feeling ripped off. The only real thing he got was the judgeslayer handcannon (which luckily was enough to make him happy), but the book gave the impression of being "For Scum and Lawmen", but it's almost exclusively about Lawmen, and even more specifically about arbitrators. Most, if not nearly all the information and options presented for scummy characters are more for the GM than a player.

My two cents

Book sounds awesome! Does anyone know how long before the PDF version would be made available?

Also - can anyone tell me what the Grapplehawk costs, and if it is the same statistically as the one in Rogue Trader (pg 375)?

Thanks

schreier

I have picked up my copy!

Not had chance to look at it properly yet (that the plan for the weekend)

I have noticed that the map in the book seems to have been updated (removing the duplicated worlds listed on the map in the DH core book) it also has different names for the sub-sectors (I guess they are the names the Arbites use)

I does seem to favour the law enforcement side of thing but otherwise looks good. I like the idea of the Bloodhouse servitor handler (I think that is what it was called)

Does anyone know when DW First Founding is due out in the UK?

I suspect the Arbites Shotgun is exactly how they meant it to be. It mentions being similarly sized to Space Marine Shotguns, and it has exactly the same damage. Personally I will be banning is straight away, as it just doesn't fit well with the rest of the stuff (I don't like the Space Marine shotgun even in the context in Deathwatch, but at least in there it is meant to be used alongside the daft Space Marine bolters). It also says in the fluff for it that it has smaller than normal ammunition capacity, due to the large shells, but then has a very large capacity, greater than all the shotguns I can remember.

borithan said:

Gregorius21778 said:

As taken from the deathwatch errata:

Astartes shotgun: s/2/- 1D10+9 pen 4
Astartes assault shotgun: s/3/5 1D10+10 pen 4

Umbranus said:

Yep, you got me with that one in the BC forum as well ..and I really wonder what this MASSIVE differences are about. It is not like the concept of "shotgun" has so much you can tweak about.

Back2Topic:
Looking on how expensive Bolts actually are one REALLY has to wonder why anything else should be used by the Adeptus Arbites*. Talking ammo... what prices are given for the "shots" of this monster-shotgun? If the ammo is even more expensive then the Bolts I could start to get my had around it...but I think not. To me, this Arbites Shotgun actually sounds misbalanced and whatever this is a typo or I, I will seriously consider downgrading the thing in my games.

*EDIT: Taking into account that they are not a field force but more about Riot Supression and Crime, and so much more likely to end up in house-to-house combat/urban warfare where the downsides of this weapon should be easily outdone by the sheer damage it puts out.

To kick in some other questions then just this shotgun-thing:

Can somebody expand a little about the additional/new rules for Investigation? Since this is "meat & bone" to much DH adventures I am eager to get a sneak peak

Hi there,

Haven't received my copy yet, but to anyone who has I was wandering if the Condemner Bolt Gun is listed...seeing as it was mentioned in Daemon Hunter yet no details were given?

Thanks

?? I am looking at building an Planetary Marshall, think like Old School Texas Rangers of the old west.

Is there anything in this book, will be helpful to me?

Angel of Death said:

Chastener or Suffering Marshal would both be viable. It would depend on if you are looking for more of a man hunter or roving lawman.

Gregorius21778 said:

Truthfully, after finally finishing looking through it I was a bit underwhelmed by this book (like many of their most recent books, particularly for Dark Heresy... I hope Only War bucks a trend). Pretty much the only new rules (as distinct from equipment) was what I mention above. Oh, wait, there was also a guide on difficulties in checking a crime scene. Not new rules as such, but a more useful guide than the rest, as it actually gave you suggested rules for how to resolve it (straight forward enough, ie more pristine crime scenes are easier to search, and a greater professionalism and skill on the part of the criminal means it is harder, but it actually suggests base difficulties to work with, which is useful, even if it only takes less than half a page). Most of the Investigation chapter was really just guidance on how to create an Investigation, with lots of tables which would allow you to randomly generate an aspect of your investigation. Not that the guidance isn't useful, just it could have been done in much less space and the idea of randomly generating aspects of an investigation really puzzles me (or at least providing tables for that exact purpose). Yes suggest plot points, what things you could have to invlude a certain skill in the investigation etc, but what is the point of all those tables. They could have saved about 3 pages without them... they really feel like filler.

The background chapter didn't inspire me. Felt a bit overblown, and the treatment of the Arbites was... Well, they basically felt like a bunch of knucleheads to me. The character chapter seemed ok. More Background Packages, which is nice and more Alternate Career ranks, of course, most of which seemed fine, though the Cyber-Mastiff Handler, a new Tech-Priest rank, can be taken at Rank 1, and as soon as they take it they get a free piece of gear, a Cyber Mastiff, which is valued at 5000 Thrones). Then came the Cell Directives which looked more directly useful to my campaign than the ones in Blood of Martyrs.

Barring the silly Shotgun most of the new gear seems fine, though the cybernetics lack any prices.

There was a Chapter of "Most Wanted". Mostly they detail a possible setting, Hive Subrique, which looks ok, and then give a couple of other possible criminals for a game. Then comes the Adventure, Jurisdiction. Short and very linear. Didn't grab my interest much. Ok, it was good to finally not have an adventure which could determine the future of the Sector, as so many of the more recent ones have, but it just didn't grab me as one I would want to run, and it didn't give me any inspiration for running my own game.

Thanks Boritan,

I look forward to the book as a whole. While having random tables for how an investigation goes is something of for many a GM, I see a use for this. Just like roling up random appreance for an NPC. All to often, a GM falls prey to his own "scheme" and always sets up everything quit similiar then to everything else s/he normally does. Having some table to roll helps to "break a habbit" or provide some spark of inspiration.

@Knuckleheads
Cannot really talk about it since I have not read it yet, but bascially I think that is what the arbites are. After all, before they were turned to Investigators of all sorts the Background of 40K featured them mostly as Riot controll and anti-uprise-force. Sounds pretty knucklehead-ish to me

Anyway, I look forward to the examples of Breaches to the Lex Imperiales

borithan said:

I have one more question on how the hierarchy is handled therein.

Is the Arbite command structure more like in the Enforcer novels by Matthew Farrer with Arbitrators and Judges running sort of parallel (besides Chasteners, Versipex etc.) and merging in the higher echelons (i.e. Arbitor General (General, Lord Marshall, whatever)) or is it more like so far described in DH with Judges being the upper (or even uppermost) rank for Arbitrators (and all other possible branches)?

Thanks in advance.

Kinda both. It's pretty vague on this and doesn't go into it. However, sine Matt Farrer contributed to the book, I'd go with his dicriptions.

I liked the book generally. I particularly liked the armoury (though the lack of availability/ costs for Augmeticsis very annoying), the upper echelons of the Arbites, Hive Subrique and the alternate career ranks. I thought hte adventure was pretty weak (I like adventures) as was the investigation rules. I'd generally give the book a thumbs level (a good result).

Luthor Harkon said:

What is established, however, is that the "Investigators" are above those patroling the streets. Well, at least on Scintilla. Proctors are mentioned as "military commanders" and thereby those leading those Arbs intended for supression and combat. Marshals are abover Proctors and High Marshals are those in charge on a planet or sub-sector scale. And after these come the Judges...

A thing of note here: the already mentioned Suffering Marshal seems to be a special title for the world of Iocanthus, named after the one and only town with a spaceport (Port Suffering) of said planet.

So, with all of these bending and localizing of structur I guess everyone is free to bend/mend/**** the background/canon/fluff/whatever yo wanna call it as steers the coffee/tea/recaff/oh-come-on!

Oh! And do not hope for any useful examples of the "Lex Imperiales" beside "things that go against planetary stability/saftey on a large scale; threatens the tithe or have something to do with one of the Adepta. Did not found a thing yet, but I am still skimming the text.

I skimmed a little further through and this is what I think about it so far.

Lex Imperialis:
Nothing new as far as I can see and to me this is another wasted chance. I am pretty sure that this is not the fault of FFG but of GamesWorkshop (who neither develope the details about the 40K-Universe out of fear for producing schism among already existing work... my 2 cents!). Anyway, I would have liked to get some "hands on" options, but BoM failed to deliver so why did I have any hopes for BoJ?.

Background about Arbites:
The informations ARE handy. The Goreman-edict about ranks & titles ("**** it, do what you like") has an odd taste to it, but it ensures that everything anyone has ever done in regard to rank and titles can be explained as part of the Goreman-Edict. Well, at least inside of the Calixis Sector.
But besides this, we got some clarifications about one thing or another and this is a good point.

Background about Scum: This falls a little short. Some reference Material about the Amaranthine Syndicate, the Beast House and two new players had been brought up (The Kasballica and Two-and-Mirror), but all in all the books lacks new stuff in this deparment. And this is true for all of the book. For 3 things "Aribtrator" comes one thing "Scum". A lot of the Careers are available to Scum-Types as well... but only for "good scum" who are not that criminal anymore. I would have liked some more stuff about...say, the Brotherhood of Thollos (which would have been my prime suggestions since they were already established as not f***ing with the -I-) or the Gunclans of Gunmetal City.
But a little is said about illegal production so you do not go to bad hungry.

Packages & Ranks: The packages are nice so I think that "prove innocent" is much overpowered. For 100xp and the loss of a FatePoint you get +3 in each and every attribute. And an additional wound. And a nice trait as well. No sire, that is too much. The Enforcer-Package seesm a bit powerful as well but this might only be my own perception. Anyway, some of the Backages give you some fine inpspiration about the world and this is always meet by me.

In regard to ranks, most things are "Arbitrator" but the Malifixer. The "Chastener" looks like a nice break-up for a Guardsmen..until your realize that you need to have both Interrogation and Inquiry to get this rank. It is designed for rank 3, but some of the classes intended to get it will only do so at rank 5+. But it makes for a good investigation char.
The "Slate Agent" is my personal grudge-thing. Rank 6, free for all and due to mind wiping & programming you get three Lores at effectively +10 at the start of your mission. This does include Forbidden Lores. This will not outsmart an Adept...but everyone and everything else. While it ensures that the pc will have the Lores the Missions asks for, everyone else better stops buying into FL if they have an SA in their group.

Cell Directives are always nice. The Interdepartmental Co-Operation seems very attractive to me since it gives a choice among CL(Imperial; Astartes); Inquiry; Search or Scrutiny AND access to a small list of skills. The skill list is unimpressive, but the "free pick" is very nice point wise. But I thinkg that CL: ASTARTES is a repeated typo and it should be ARBITES.

The Armoury has a bit or two and keeps up with the wave of adding additional bonus to one armour or another. But this is okay. I did not checked counter-checked the prices yet, so. Oh, this Arbites Shotgun is overpowered as HELL. At least in regard to a DH game. And you get Cybercreatures. Loots of Cybercreatures. Many people will like to play a Cybermastiff-Handler just for the sheer number of beasts.

The new hive feels a little plain to me. Compared to what they provided with other descriptions like the one of "Emperor Island" in MitM it seems wanting. But I am only half through here. AND I am missing a planetary gazette here

Last comment about the Arbites Shotgun, I think it shoukd have a Clip of 4 not 14.

What I'm realy missing in the book is Special Ammo, the Executioner Shell at the least.

A lot of stats line don't have the SB included in the weapons I gather.

I absolutely love the Gutter Forged Armour, very Ned Kelly

Missing some kind of Bolt Weapon...