Miah mentioned this on his blog, and I think it's something really worth considering-

How can we spread word about Tannhauser?

I am probably going to make a Facebook thing, but what else can we do?

I love the original video- the old world movie style briefing of the setting- but it's not enough!

Boardgame Geek even is lacking in stuff- and its kind of overloaded with version one stuff that just makes it confusing- can that be moved to a separate page?

Does anyone have thoughts on how to make people hear about my favorite board game?

Well i dont see why not?! BGG is the way i say... Every game out there, when its a second edition or something they receive a new page on BGG, even expansions have separated pages for them. So, i say we request a new page for Tannhauser 2.0! And we populate ourselves with the stuff we being doing, it will sure catch the eye of a lot of people since its going to have a good rating, of course a love vote count but we can write new reviews, new faq, new rules questions, you know? Basically make it alive like we doing here and no one is watching, because not even FFG care for what we do here, im almost sure i can say that an admin is a *** and no one would care around here. Maybe at BGG we can use this spark and bring Tannhauser back to the gaming community, as it should have come in the first place!

Maybe if FFG did as they are doing to Descent? 2.0, conversion box and new rules, more polished and renewed, but i hope balanced too. Well maybe then Tannhauser had a chance since just a rulebook and asking for money even for the pdf version? They should have made a new release as Tannhauser 2.0! Not only the rules but as they are doing now, another faction, even better in a big box with some maps right? We need maps to play, 6 maps for this long? Its like almost a map per year, thats ridiculous! Even a 12 years old could release more then 1 map a year! Im starting to believe that we have more fan-made material then the real tannhauser stuff.

definitely think we should take over the BGG forums files, EXPANSION REVIEWS (which is nearly non-existent on there), miah's videos, etc.

i think a problem is we got all these expansions coming out, and just the stock info posted to BGG in most cases...people want to know exactly how well the expansions play and if they're worth it i think, especially if diving right into the game. I can see how all the product can be off-putting to people just starting out especially with no review on it on BGG one way or the other. Along those lines, I strongly believe there should be a "Tutorial Mode" that introduces all the rules and characters GRADUALLY, as opposed to the current rulebook's method of diving in head first - all the rules, 5 characters you have to choose, choose their packs, choose the map, etc...have it a set order of say 3 missions that introduce more rules, characters, and equipment each game so it's not so overwhelming for some people...this is something i've been working on. Like the same way Earth Reborn introduces rules.

Other than the interwebs, i plan on attending the Columbus Board Gaming Society (CABS - bi-weekly meetups of gamers in a hall where all different types of games are played) to promote this game to people in the area

I have to admit, for a business selling a luxury product in a highly competitive market, FFG does a poor job marketing this game outside their website & retail store, IMHO

ALSO - not sure if they allow, but if they do, would be a good idea to add the custom fan sites to linked sites to BGG Web Links for the base game, linked to expansions, no?

A lot of this has been said before, but here is my take. First, I think the two biggest challenges for Tannhauser are its:

1. Prior Showings: Some people tried the original game and did not like it. Others who enjoyed the game may have moved to other games because of the wait for the Revised Edition or because they were unhappy that FFG chose to sell the new rulebook. These have contributed to #2.

2. Poor Exposure: Exposure is critical to any game. In today's saturated market, you get 15 minutes to make a mark before you fall off the radar. Tannhauser's 15 minutes ran out awhile ago, and as I wrote above, its mark did not last.

I believe the game's high price is also a barrier, though the 2 above are more important. I also agree that the amount of powers can be a challenge to new players, though I feel that people need to get past the problems above before they even try the game for the rules to be an issue. Solutions are harder to come by. The game primarily needs increased exposure which should also help resolve problem #1 above as people see the current version of the game. FFG really should do more to promote the game, but we have no control over that. On our end...

1. Demos are one way to attract attention. If you have a local store with a few tables, you can always ask to setup a few Demos. Conventions can give the game even more exposure. You usually have more people and even internet coverage for the bigger ones. However, it will be harder to capture interest at bigger Cons because there is so much to see!

2. The internet is a great resource, but as with big Cons, its hard to capture interest. We can add to BGG's TH pages or our blogs all we want, but if the only people who look at those sites are already Tannhauser fans, then we are not making any progress! I'm not sure of the best way to garner attention here. I did let one of the gaming news sites know when I previewed Asteros last year but they apparently did not feel it was newsworthy because they did not even respond! It maybe helpful to tag along with another game. For instance, if you are a member of a fansite for another game, you might post a review of Tannhauser there. You just need to be careful you are not too zealous because this could easily backfire.

3. Combining the two approaches, online Demos would be nice. Moebius has made Tannhauser Online which I have not tried but looks great. I still think a Vassal module would be nice because more board gamers use Vassal. I did send FFG a query about permission for a new Vassal version a couple of weeks ago but have not heard back =

4. We could try to address some of the "downsides" to the game. Artemus mentioned some starter scenarios to help people learn, which could be very helpful for the Demo ideas above. Another possible area to eventually work on would be a good set of multiplayer rules or scenarios. I have seen people who said the game barely hits the table because they usually have more than 2 people at their game nights, so a multiplayer mode could help.

I have demonstrated the game to quite a few people and all were impressed by it. Some even said they would buy a copy. The problem is that there are so many games out there, even if someone buys a copy, it could just sit in the cupboard.

FFG is a company, and as such dedicates resources according to the return these resources will have. It seems that the returns on Dust are much greater right now (broader community), hence the community managers and product managers will concentrate on other products like it. It is really hard to revert a tendency like this and FFG would ned a reason to start investing more heavily in this game, lets give them it.

So far in my local stores tanhauser is not even in the shelves, when I asked it had too low sales that is a vey bad sign, on the other hand we, the fans, are having this debate right now (and its not the first time) and we are already doing "their job" spreading the word and doing demos and other marketing activities.

That said there are things FFG can do with almost zero investment, things that really have low effort (Investment) and high return. Tannhauser has a small but very active fanbase and it can be leveraged. Giving a voice on the oficial web to those more active fans and leveraging our time (which is a free investment since it is our hobby) is one of these things, these are examples of such activities:

- Contests: Announcing contests for maps or scenario creation (winner gets a free figure or free credit to spend on FFG products)
- Content for the blogs, leaking out bits and tips of info to bloggers like Miah or Doc Savage might be a boon for them with no cost
- Votations: Asking directly the community for feedback or oppinion on certain matters like future expansions, or game balance issues to correct in faqs.
-Community empowerment: If FFG has not enough resources to have a dedicated Tannhauser community manager they might name one from the fans with the task to dedicate certain hours a month answering questions for the community and compiling things like faqs or organizing the above, in exchange for a direct pipe to the game creators for these questions that need their attention and some freebies.

On a more general basis there are certain things that will help the game survive in the long run, first and foremost the Tannhauser novel. Enhancing the tannhauser universe through a novel is indeed a great way to attract new players, people that might like the novel and want to try the game. I would name the novel as a good gift for people we want to hook into the game (hoping that they make a good job with it).

Enhancing the multiplayer experience is not that hard and will expand the target market, if the games is only seen as 2 players, having already 4 factions in the market I would bet on a multiplayer expansion for the game (3p or 4p), this is certainly sinnergic with the other game expansions (If I have the basic game and get 3p scenarios and rules it's likely that I will buy either novgorod or shogunate) and will open the game to these groups used to have 4 people on the table for games.

Campaign rules (like the ones I created) might also help, Necromunda, Bloodbowl and these kind of games got traction in gaming clubs as they allowed to create longer term gaming experiences like campaigns, tournaments, leagues etc.

I would really like to have a FFG oppinion on this thread (an on others) I hope they find some ideas from us they can leverage.

Hey guys,

I thought it was kind of crazy that the revised rules are almost two years old and yet nobody has written a proper review on BGG, so I wrote one.

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/719000/tannhauser-a-fantastic-game-unfairly-shafted-by-t

I've also raised the issue of getting the second edition Tannhauser its own distinct entry in the BGG database so its rating won't be diluted by all the 1st edition stuff. I submitted an entry and was contacted by an admin about revising it. I'm not too optimistic it will go through, but you never know. If a few other folks started contacting admins and asking nicely it might help.

All you said right: the promotion, the price, new board maps, a demo to introduce the game.

I think the pdf rule book 2.0 should have to be free, I didn't see a core box with new rules in a market: all have the old version, and the retailers prefer to sell the old boxes in the storage (OK, this happens in Italy, maybe in USA/France/Germany/ecc.. is different)

The rules should be clearer, without misunderstandings or contraddictions, and the release of new material (new figure expansions and new settings), without cleare rules, creates confusion and more difficulty to end a game without lot of questions if the mach has been correct.

Now that we are at it, they should release a 2.1 version correcting everuthing appearing int he erratas, after all its all online, I am not talking about reprinting anything.

Moebius said:

Sure: this is the first step, the importantest. There are too "if" in the rules, too "maybe the rule means that".
But how can we ask to FFG to give us news about errata corrige? In which way? Do we ask to who?

Apparently FFG is no longer even responding to rules questions e-mails. I wrote a long mail to customer support sumarizing most of what we have written here.

In the mail I asked them to name someone from the community to act as level 1 support in exchange of some freebies and give him e-mail access to whoever owns the rules within FFG. That community manager might also propose activities like the ones I mention in my post before.

This was their answer (I removed the contact name)

Thank you for bering this concern you have to our attention. Thank you also for taking the time in composing your email and sending it off to us. We will take your concern in to consideration as we move forward in the Tannhauser product line.

Regards,

Customer Service Associate
Fantasy Flight Games Customer Service Team
customerservice@fantasyflightgames.com

What happens to Tannhauser seems up in the air. In truth, I think there are enough models to play the game many times over. The planned expansions, although welcomed, are not essential. Adding characters is very easy. The problem is that this line cannot compare to any of their major products, so it is hard to see much time being spent on it. The old rules that you get in many of the boxes is not very positive.

Horsa said:

In that case I personally think that we the fans should come up with an 'unofficial faq'

Perhaps the most interested members could give their own interpretation of each controversial or unclear rule and we could then come to a consensus as to how it should be played?

I'm prepared to have a go (I houserule difficult or ambivalent rules for my own boardgame collection all the time) .... Anyone else interested?

-Nhoj

ps we could then present our results to FFG for approval / disapproval

Moebius wrote: Now that we are at it, they should release a 2.1 version...

I think it would be nice if they just release the v2.0 rules for free since all of the current players should already have the new rulebook and the new players will get it when they buy the game. A v2.1 is unlikely in my opinion. FAQs / Errata are the standard in the industry. Usually, you only see updated rulebooks for new Editions of a game, and those are usually sold for profit (as for wargames like Warhammer) or packaged with new components. Games supported by tournament play are obviously an exception since the rules need to be as clear as possible for those.

On the other hand, fans will sometimes compile all the rules for a game on their own. I'm just not sure we'd be allowed to do so for Tannhauser since the rulebook is not available for free...

Moebius wrote: Apparently FFG is no longer even responding to rules questions e-mails.

FFG tends to answer questions about its games sporadically, so its not really a change nor is it unique to Tannhauser. I know the Descent fans ultimately decided to get together to compile all the questions and to make a list of possible solutions to help FFG out, similar to the idea Nhoj suggested, so that is always a possibility for us as well.

Moebius wrote: In the mail I asked them to name someone from the community to act as level 1 support...

A nice idea though time will tell what FFG decides to do with it. We certainly have some good candidates to act as reps. Really though, as I mentioned before, if we really want to promote the game, its probably better to do so under the assumption that FFG will not participate since they do not typically go out of their way to promote their games unless the game is new. Dust Tactics is the exception but it looks like they hope to start a tournament scene with it, which is a unique situation for FFG. Of course, it would be great if FFG does get involved, but we should not wait around until they do.

One idea for us to consider is to post on some forums about Tannhauser Online and offer to schedule a time to demo the game for people who are interested. Ideally, we would only post to forums where we are already members and that have an Off-Topic section since we could come off as spammers otherwise! =P

Horsa wrote: The planned expansions, although welcomed, are not essential.

I think that could be said of any game =P

Horsa wrote: The old rules that you get in many of the boxes is not very positive.

I actually liked that the game came with both the old and new rulebooks since there is some background information in the old book which is not found in the new. On the other hand, FFG probably should have included a short letter to explain to players that there are 2 different rulesets included and that the token reference was for the original. That was not a problem for me since I watched the game for awhile before I bought it, but I've seen people post their confusion about it.

I support the unofficial FAQ Idea, we could start with the questions Miah compiled as we got already official answers from FFG mails. My proposal:

Nhoj opens a new thread (this is his idea) so we can put together all the doubts that have arisen and are not included in the first faq.

The community starts posting the doubts there AND the solution, be it an official solution (FFG mail) or a proposed solution. In case it is an e-mail solution it should be marked as such.

In some time (say 1 or two weeks) we (by "we" I mean myself if there are no volunteers ;-) gather all thats its in there and create a nice looking doc that contains all the first FAQ plus ours, we post it here (and hopefully in the blogs as well) and we send it to FFG customer support in case they want to approve it.

Nhoj are you up for it? I could have just opened it myself byt did not want to steal your idea... If you do, you should include some guidances about how to post like the ones I just mentioned.

On a different subject about Tannhauser Online demos I would suggest doing a couple of videos about it, one for installation and a second one on how to set up a game and play. Miah has quite some experience with demo videos, if you are reading and are up for it I could support you so you can get it set up and running.

On the "Level 1 support" I wrote in my mail that they should ask for volunteers for a "community manager" and give him som freebies in exchange for his commitment...we will see what they do :-)

Moebius said:

Hi M

It may be my idea but the fans will make it work or not ..... Go ahead and open the thread yourself, it won't be long before I start contributing

-Nhoj

Although he has not done any Tannhauser demos, the person who does these them is one of the most effective I have seen at teaching people how to play the game although I wish he would play faster myself! He has drawn many into his games.

http://www.youtube.com/user/BlackBeltGaming#p/u/2/9PVs4-LHptY

Moebius wrote: I support the unofficial FAQ Idea... a new thread...

We've had 3 different threads with compiled answers, but they have all fallen off the front page since we were not able to get them stickied. The forums do not let us edit posts either. With those concerns in mind, it maybe a better idea to find a different place for the compiled answers. Miah and I have a project in the works which could possibly work for this.

Moebius wrote: The community starts posting the doubts there AND the solution...

Haha... this is similar to what the Descent fans decided to do. I think its a good idea to start our own unofficial FAQ. Ideally, it would lead to faster answers from FFG as well, but I would not expect it since I used a similar format for a number of questions back in the day but never got an answer. Anyway, here is one possible format for us to use:

1. Question: Can Zor'ka use Awakening when her Mental Pack (Presence) is chosen? If yes, how?

2. Relevant Text with Source:

=> Presence: Treat your Mental stat as if it were a -. You may not be targeted by Mental Duels. [Revised Rulebook, p57]

=> Null Characteristics Rule: Some characters have null values... shown by a dash... a character with a null characteristic cannot make tests or participate in duels based on that characteristic... [Revised Rulebook, p12]

=> Awakening: At the beginning of any of your (i.e. Zor’Ka’s) activations after the first game turn, you may trigger Awakening. When you do so, make a Mental test; you must score three successes (rather than one) in order to be successful on this test... [Revised Rulebook, p56]

3. Discussion: The rules clearly state you cannot make a mental test if the relevant stat is a null characteristic. It does not seem right, however, that Zor'ka would not be able to use her Special Item because of another item that she carries.

4. Proposed Solutions (Or Official Answer if we have One)

Official Answer: Presence should read: Treat your Mental stat as if it were a"-." You may not be targeted by Mental attacks. However, when making a mental test for Awakening, use your current mental value on your character sheet.

If we do not have an official answer yet, then we can list the proposed solutions, possibly with a "Most Likely" solution that the team will pick until we hear back from FFG:

A. (Most Likely) Use your current mental value on your character sheet when you make a mental test for Awakening if you have Presence equipped.

B. You automatically succeed when you make a mental test for Awakening if you have Presence equipped.

C. You may not use Awakening if you have presence equipped.

If you are already wirking on it it is great news, could you make it public so we can start submitting the questions and start the debate?

Rhydderch said:

A, is the correct answere in my book since the presence should just stop other people from messing with your mind and I don't see a reason to not be able to fail the test. Since the whole game has some luck in it, why shouldn't this ability has it?

I could live with B, but it doesn't make that much sense to me why it would be that way.

C is just wrong (to me) since it would make Zor'ka a realy weak character in her command pack.

Hi MeisterH, the question I posted was actually answered by FFG awhile ago. I only posted it as an example of a possible format we can use if we decide to make an unofficial FAQ.