So, while Hatestorm remains in effect all creatures within the power's radius immediately enters a Frenzied state.

I am not sure I see the point. Frenzy is mainly for close combat and so in a melee even your enemies would be Frenzied by this psychic power thus negating most of the benefits.

Or what am I missing?

Forcing range focused enemies into melee is always a nice use. Imaging taking your melee focused sorcerer into a lump of cowardly Tau and then frenzing them, thus making them all engage you in melee, turning those nasty pulse rifles into nothing more than exceptionally fragile clubs and forcing their equally fragile wielders to fight you on your own turf.

Or why not plunge your fatigued and surpressed fellow PC's into a bloodthirsty frenzy potent enough to give them the courage to charge into enemy fire? Or, hey, unleash it in a ballroom or party of your nemesis and watch as his little gathering tears itself apart, killing his allies and then possibly putting blame on him for tainted punchbowls or lacking security! And then when he comes after you, unleash it again and render him so furious any plan or plot he had is instantly forgotten as he throws himself at you in a mindless rage!

That said, I do agree that it's utility, especially considering it's pre-reqs, is of limited use unless you think outside the box a bit, and even then it's not fantastic, mostly due to that half-action sustain alongside the limits on power use while in frenzy. If it was reduced to a free action sustian, or if BC had Mental Rage, it'd be a far more appealing power.

Well, I guess that's something at least, thanks man.

If your enemies are frenzied, but your party members are not, it helps even the field.

Also, have fun casting that from a concealed position inside an Imperial Basilica during a service to the Emperor. As a GM, I would rule the frenzy to be the kind of "can't tell friend from foe" (if there are no actual enemies nearby).

You could be facing enemies that normally rely on ranged capabilities. To force them to go melee would certainly hurt them. Frenzied Tau are hardly noteworthy.

Theoretically, you could frenzy the occupants of a vehicle, right?

I very much approve of the idea of using Hatestorm during a religious ritual, it would be HILARIOUS.

Cynicus said:

I guess the real question is: would you pay 400 xp for the entertainment?

Totally would, there are more ways powers can be useful other than combat. Using Hatestorm in a situation like that would be an excellent way to kickstart a riot, create enough chaos to assassinate a high ranking Munitorum priest, undermine faith in the Emperor, escape a difficult situation in the chaos, there are loads and loads of creative uses that I would not hesitate to reward with success.

While I agree plunging crowds into frenzy has immense uses, it losses a lot of it's potential when you realize the psyker must remain within range for them to continue to, well, frenzy.

Plus, IIRC, it actually forces the Psyker into a frenzy as well, though I vaguely recall this being... unclear in the phrasing of the power.

Reverend mort said:

Not exactly unclear:

Hatestorm p.214:

"While this power remains in effect, the Sorcerer, and all creatures within the power's radius immediately enter a Frenzied state, as if they had the Frenzy Talent. [...] The Sorcerer may continue to manifest psychic powers even while Frenzied."

Frenzy p.124-5:

"The character must attack the nearest enemy in melee combat if possible. If he is not engaged with the nearest enemy, he must move towards that enemy and engage if possible."

Hatestorm needs half an action to be sustained by the way....

I am still not seeing the huge potential but I do like that not all powers necessarily have to have a clear benefit in combat, or even have a clear benefit at all. As Cynicus has pointed out great roleplay can come from ambigous powers.

I personally wouldn't pay 400 xp for it though but that's just me.

Whats weird though, is the power is basically an AoE burst, with the blast size measured in PR multiplied by a static value. Whats to say the Sorcerer isn't caught within the "blast of hate"? Further reading appears to make it that the Sorcerer is always frenzied, but that doesn't really seem to be entirely clear. Its as if the initial form of this power was centered on the sorcerer no matter what.

How is it not clear? The psyker gets Frenzied, and has all the benefits of Frenzy, in addition, a lot of people around him are frenzied too. The psyker can use his powers while frenzied.

I don't understand how you are getting confused by this.

DJSunhammer said:

Nevermind, I am just reading it wrong. Apparently a 3 second once over isn't good enough to notice it centers on the sorcerer.

Huh. I don't recall noticing "the sorcerer" being specifically mentioned in the description. Then again, since my readings of BC are still limited by the amount of time I can swipe it from my gm, I don't have the luxury of rechecks. In that case, no, not unclear and clearly far more limited.

TBH that half-action sustain is a real limiter, as is the automatic frenzy of the Psyker alongside the limits on psychic power use or even sustain while in Frenzy. Ahh mental rage, we need your chaotic equivalent, because unless I'm mistaken you normally can't cast or sustain psychic powers while in a frenzy, no?

So final assessment: Useful, especially for unconventional or out of combat plans, but perhaps a bit too restricted in terms of what you gain and lose.

@Reverend Mort

TBH that half-action sustain is a real limiter, as is the automatic frenzy of the Psyker alongside the limits on psychic power use or even sustain while in Frenzy. Ahh mental rage, we need your chaotic equivalent, because unless I'm mistaken you normally can't cast or sustain psychic powers while in a frenzy, no?

Normally , you can't. However, Hatestorm specifically notes that you can still manifest powers, as has been mentioned before in this thread.

I am aware, though I suppose the above post was a bit badly phrased. Teach me to post in the morning. Point was that it would be nice to have a psyker way of frenzying that still allows psychic powers without forcing you to A) sustain a half-action power and B) forces everyone in your vicinity into frenzying too.

Another use I just realized through another thread. While being in a frenzy gives you certain action requirements that makes it hard to use most powers, since meleeing and running into melee makes it hard to use a lot of powers since they require actions you're spending on fighting, it does allow you to use the following:

Reaction powers and Force weapon killing will. Having access to precog dodge AND killing will with a +10 on the test are both rather big bonuses for psykers who like the up-close kill. Sacrificing a half-action to do so is still a bit of a hit, but combining the bonuses of frenzy with a fully functional force weapon is pretty good.

bladerunner_35 said:

Since it would (in a matching campaign about infiltrating the Imperium) allow me so sow impromptu upheval in a hive (if I can get out alive somehow), desecrate churches (as mentioned), build up inpromptu distraction to lure the Enforcers away from the REAL TARGET and (while in disguise) watch the visitors of a Carnivora tear each other appart on the ranks... hell yes, I would buy this.

The trick is to come up with other uses then the immediate combat use. Same as with Telekinetics. My 2 cents

Or you could just administer Frenzon through the water pipes, lean back and watch Chaos unfold. Not really trying to shoot down ideas but sometimes a horse is just a horse.

Presuming they don't have water filtration systems

Actually, the more I ponder it, the more hatestorm gets a bunch of sideline utility. It lets you force weapon in a frenzy, but it also lets you exit said frenzy at will and enter it a half-action cheaper without any limits on how often you can use it. You don't need an hour to recover, you can just stop sustaining it rather than testing willpower to not attack other enemies, or just shut it off when it becomes more advantageous to have a clear head.

So yeah, having to dedicate a half-action is a pain, but then again, since your actual actions are more or less restricted to "attack or move" anyway, all it removes is stuff like charge, which sucks but, in return for that much selective control... I gotta say, not a bad trade-off.

Reverend mort said:

Finally! A psyker dedicated to Khorne! A dream come true.....

Khorne will be most pleased....

;P

until khorne realises its a psyker then egts squioshie on it

Drake56 said:

Or, one checks the little black box on page 78, which states:
" In game terms, those Aligned to Khorne may never use Psychic Powers, even if they posses the Psyker Trait. As long as they are Aligned to Khorne, they also do not count as having the Psyker Trait."

So, no hatestorming-psyker of Khorne...

But Hatestorming ex-Khorne sorcerers are A-OK, just stick around long enough to pick up the talents and such. Than break away, nothing can go wrong.

bladerunner_35 said:

...which would need A WHOLE LOT OF FRENZON for ensuring that it is not getting watered down to the point of pure uselessness . Water Systems have huge amount of water.

EDIT: A horse is just a horse... but a BAtman-movie is often not really correct about how much drugs one would net to give into a water system to have any effect